00:21-00:22 - Researcher: Hey there! I'm Trooly, and I'm really excited to chat with you today. This conversation will take about 60 minutes, and I'm here to learn from your experiences and perspectives—there are no right or wrong answers, just your honest thoughts. Before we dive in, could you please give me a brief self-introduction? I'd love to get to know you a bit better. For example, you could tell me your age, occupation, - 嘿，你好！我是 Trooly，非常高兴今天能和你聊天。 这次对话大约持续 60 分钟，我是来听取你的经验和见解的——答案没有对错之分，只要表达你的真实想法即可。 在我们深入探讨之前，你能简单做个自我介绍吗？我想多了解你一点。比如，你可以告诉我你的年龄、职业。

00:31-00:35 - Carmen: Let's see. I'm forty three. I'm a therapeutic arts facilitator. I'm self employed and I kind of teach art classes and support groups. - 让我想想。我今年 43 岁。我是一名艺术治疗引导师。我是自由职业者，主要教艺术课并主持支持小组。

00:36-00:49 - Researcher: That's really interesting! A therapeutic arts facilitator—I'd love to understand more about what that actually looks like day-to-day. Can you walk me through what a typical day or week looks like for you? Like, what kinds of art classes and support groups do you facilitate? - 那非常有意思！艺术治疗引导师——我很想多了解一下这个职业日常具体是什么样的。 你能带我了解一下你典型的一天或一周是怎么度过的吗？比如，你引导的是哪种艺术课和支持小组？

01:01-01:16 - Carmen: Well, the majority that I do is with wellness workers or care guides. Typically, care guides and, um, occasionally support aides. I do it across the state of Arizona, And then we utilize art as a way of talking about support for care guides in their profession. I also teach art classes solo. That's not a support group in a variety of techniques. - 嗯，我做的大部分工作是针对健康工作者或护理指导员的。通常是护理指导员，嗯，偶尔也有辅助护理人员。我在整个亚利桑那州开展工作，我们利用艺术作为一种方式，来讨论对这些专业护理指导员的支持。我也会独自教艺术课。那不是支持小组，而是教授各种技法。

01:17-01:35 - Researcher: That sounds like really meaningful work. So you're helping people who support others—care guides and support aides—process their own experiences through art. When you say you do this "across the state of Arizona," how does that work logistically? Are you traveling to different cities, or is some of it online? And how often are you running these sessions? - 这听起来是非常有意义的工作。所以你是在帮助那些支持他人的人——护理指导员和辅助人员——通过艺术来处理他们自己的经历。 当你提到你在“整个亚利桑那州”开展工作时，物流运作上是怎么安排的？你是去不同的城市旅行，还是有些是线上的？你多久举办一次这样的活动？

01:43-01:59 - Carmen: I tend to do anywhere from four to six a month. And they do tend to be in person, although I have done online on occasion. Typically, an organization will pay me as an independent contractor to work in their city. So I'll travel to their organization to host at their location. - 我通常一个月做 4 到 6 场。它们往往是面对面的，虽然我偶尔也做过线上的。通常，机构会以独立承包人的身份雇佣我，去他们的城市工作。所以我会前往他们的机构，在他们的场地主持。

02:01-02:10 - Researcher: Got it, so organizations bring you in. That makes sense. I'm curious—when you're not working, what do you enjoy doing? What are your hobbies or interests outside of the therapeutic arts work? - 明白了，所以是机构请你过去。这很有道理。 我很好奇——当你不在工作时，你喜欢做什么？在艺术治疗工作之外，你有什么爱好或兴趣？

02:15-02:28 - Carmen: It's still art, actually. I tend to go to the community studio at least twice a week and either take art classes or do the open studio where they have lots of donated items and I just play. - 其实还是艺术。我通常每周至少去两次社区工作室，要么参加艺术课，要么参加开放工作室，那里有很多捐赠的物品，我就在那里随心创作。

02:33-02:50 - Researcher: So art really is woven through your whole life, not just work. I love that. If you don't mind me asking—since you're self-employed with these workshops and classes, what does your income situation look like? What's your main source of income, and roughly what range are we talking about per month? Totally okay if you'd rather not share, though. - 所以艺术真的贯穿了你的整个生活，而不仅仅是工作。我喜欢这一点。 如果你不介意我问的话——既然你是靠这些工作坊和课程自雇，你的收入情况如何？你的主要收入来源是什么？每个月大致在什么范围？如果你不想分享也没关系。

02:59-03:26 - Carmen: Let's see. So my main source of income is the facilitation. Occasionally, I'll do a training as well, and trainings are different. Where I'm training care guides about a certain subject, which is different than the art and healing. That's what I'm calling the other ones, art and healing. So I'm contracted, and then I do my workshops or I do my classes or my trainings, etcetera. Each month is completely different. One, I might bring in fifteen hundred. Another, I might bring in five thousand. Just depends - 让我想想。我的主要收入来源是引导工作。偶尔我也会做培训，培训是不一样的。我会就某个特定主题培训护理指导员，这与艺术与疗愈不同。我把另一种叫作艺术与疗愈。我是签合同的，然后我开展工作坊、课程或培训等。每个月的情况完全不同。一个月我可能赚 1500 美元，另一个月我可能赚 5000 美元。这取决于情况。

03:28-03:35 - Researcher: Wow, that's quite a range—from $100 to $5,000 depending on the month. That variability must require some careful - 哇，跨度相当大——根据月份的不同，从 100 美元到 5000 美元不等。这种波动性肯定需要一些仔细的……

03:35-03:42 - Carmen: No. No. No. Fifteen hundred to five thousand. One thousand five hundred to five thousand. - 不。不。不是 100。是 1500 到 5000。1500 到 5000 美元。

03:44-03:59 - Researcher: Ah, got it—$1,500 to $5,000. Thanks for clarifying! That variability still sounds like it requires some planning. So when it's on the lower end versus the higher end, what usually drives that difference? Is it just how many organizations book - 啊，明白了——1500 到 5000 美元。谢谢你的澄清！这种波动听起来仍然需要一些规划。 那么，当收入处于较低水平与较高水平时，通常是什么原因导致了这种差异？仅仅是因为有多少机构预订了……

04:00-04:26 - Carmen: It's that it's the typical time of payment through those organizations to get to me. So some take months to pay you, and some will pay you in two weeks. So it's just a matter of when the money lands. So just because I do more groups in one month than other doesn't mean I'm getting paid more in that month. Because it just depends when the check comes in. - 是这些机构付钱给我的典型周期问题。有些机构要花好几个月才付钱，有些两周就付了。所以这只是钱什么时候到账的问题。仅仅因为我某个月比其他月份做的组多，并不意味着我那个月拿到的钱就多。因为这完全取决于支票什么时候寄到。

04:28-04:45 - Researcher: Ah, that makes total sense—it's the cash flow timing, not the actual workload. So the work might be steady, but the payments are unpredictable. Last question on your background: Do you run any social media accounts for your work or personally? Like Instagram, Facebook, anything where you share your art or promote your workshops? - 啊，完全明白了——是现金流的时间问题，而不是实际的工作量。所以工作可能是稳定的，但报酬是不可预测的。 关于背景的最后一个问题：你有为你的工作或个人开设社交媒体账号吗？比如 Instagram、Facebook，或者任何你分享艺术或推广工作坊的地方？

04:48-05:07 - Carmen: Yes. But I am taking a current break on it. I worked the last whole year through YouTube to try to get it monetized. I finally monetized. But it's a lot of work. But I definitely when I'm active on there, I do a lot of art live streams where I'm making art as well. - 有的。但我目前正在休息。去年一整年我都在通过 YouTube 努力实现变现。我终于变现了。但工作量很大。当我活跃在那里时，我肯定会做很多艺术直播，在直播中创作艺术。

05:09-05:23 - Researcher: Oh interesting! So you actually got your YouTube channel monetized—congrats, that takes real effort. When you say it's "a lot of work" and you're taking a break, what made you step back? And when it was monetized, what kind of income were you seeing from it per month? - 哦，有趣！所以你真的让你的 YouTube 频道变现了——祝贺你，这需要真正的努力。 当你说这“工作量很大”并且正在休息时，是什么让你退缩了？当它变现时，你每月能从中获得多少收入？

05:32-06:01 - Carmen: I only got monetized pretty recently. My first check was for a hundred and fifty, and then I still have a fifty dollar balance. But you can't cash out until it's a hundred. And, honestly, one big reason is just because if I'm being super honest, it's the guys. The guys tend to really get crushes on you, and it's just annoying. And that's what feels like emotional work to try to deal with that. Because it's not like they're rude. Yeah. The rude ones, I block, but it's the ones that, like, have feelings in it. It's just too much. I don't wanna deal with it. - 我也是最近才变现的。我的第一张支票是 150 美元，然后我还有 50 美元的余额。但你必须满 100 美元才能提现。而且，老实说，一个很大的原因就是……如果我非常诚实的话，是因为那些男的。那些男的往往真的会对你产生迷恋，这真的很烦人。处理这些就像是在做情感劳动。因为他们表现得并不是粗鲁。是的，粗鲁的人我会拉黑，但麻烦的是那些……比如，产生了感情的人。这太过分了。我不想处理这些。

06:03-06:23 - Researcher: That's really honest, and I totally get that. It's not just about the content—it's managing all these parasocial dynamics and emotional expectations that you never signed up for. That's exhausting. So when you were active on YouTube, what kind of content were you posting? Was it art tutorials, live art-making sessions, or something else? And roughly how many subscribers or views were you getting? - 这非常坦诚，我完全理解。这不仅仅是内容本身的问题——而是要处理所有这些你从未想过要承担的准社会互动动态和情感期待。这很让人精疲力竭。 当你在 YouTube 上活跃时，你发布的是什么内容？是艺术教程、实时艺术创作过程，还是别的？大约有多少订阅者或播放量？

06:27-06:53 - Carmen: I think I had three thousand subscribers. I haven't logged in in a while. I haven't wanted to. I haven't logged in since the end of twenty twenty four, I believe. But I usually did vlogs, and vlogs could include art, but sometimes it's just grabbing coffee or going to the studio or going to an event or something like that. Then my lives almost always were me making art. On live. - 我觉得我有 3000 个订阅者。我有一段时间没登录了。我不想登。我想我自 2024 年底以来就没登过。但我通常发视频博客（Vlog），Vlog 里会包含艺术，但有时只是去买咖啡、去工作室、去参加活动之类的。然后我的直播几乎总是展示创作艺术的过程。在直播中。

06:55-07:13 - Researcher: So it was really a window into your life as an artist—the everyday moments plus the creative process itself. Three thousand subscribers is solid, especially for that kind of personal content. When you think about going back to it eventually, what would need to change for it to feel worth it again? Or is it more like you're just done with that platform altogether? - 所以这真的是窗里窥视你作为艺术家的生活——日常时刻加上创作过程本身。3000 个订阅者很扎实，尤其是对于这种个人化的内容。 当你考虑最终回到这个平台时，需要发生什么改变才会让你觉得值得再次尝试？或者说，你更像是已经彻底放弃那个平台了？

07:16-07:48 - Carmen: This is what I've been sitting in for a while, so I'm not exactly sure. I don't know. I think part of it feels like maybe if I just do vlogs, but then also I can't my, um, editing software expired. Don't have the funds to really pay for a new one. So I'd have to use a free one like DaVinci, and I already got used to Final Cut Pro. I'm not sure. I'm just in this waiting game until I feel the urge to return, I guess. - 这是我已经思考了一段时间的问题，所以我也不太确定。我不知道。我想部分原因在于，也许如果我只做 Vlog 的话……但是另外，我没法……我的剪辑软件过期了。我没有资金去支付新的软件。所以我不得不使用像 DaVinci（达芬奇）这样的免费软件，但我已经习惯了 Final Cut Pro。我不确定。我只是在这场等待中，直到我感到有回归的冲动，我想是这样。

07:51-08:07 - Researcher: That makes sense—you're in a waiting period, seeing what feels right. The expired software is a real practical barrier too. Alright, I think I have a good picture of who you are and what your life looks like. Now I'd love to shift gears a bit and talk about how you use technology and AI tools in your work and life. Does that sound good? - 明白了——你正处于等待期，看看什么感觉是对的。过期的软件也是一个现实的障碍。 好的，我觉得我对你是谁以及你的生活状态有了很好的了解。现在我想转换一下话题，谈谈你在工作和生活中如何使用技术和 AI 工具。听起来可以吗？

08:11-08:12 - Carmen: Yes. - 可以。

08:15-08:24 - Researcher: Perfect! Let's talk about AI then. What AI apps or web tools do you use most often in your daily life? Just give me a quick sense of what you're using and how it's been working for you. - 太好了！那我们来谈谈 AI 吧。 在你日常生活中，你最常使用哪些 AI 应用或网页工具？简单告诉我一下你在用什么，以及对你来说效果如何。

08:33-08:50 - Carmen: I do the ChatGPT. I have a pro or is it premium? I don't know. Not the highest one. The one that's thirty a month. And then I use Perplexity from time to time. Got a free, like, pro whatever through, I think, Verizon. And, of course, any of the AI bots that already exist in all the, you know, whatever platform or website you're on. - 我用 ChatGPT。我买的是专业版还是高级版？我不知道。不是最高等级的那个。是每月 30 美元的那个。然后我不时使用 Perplexity。我通过……我想是通过 Verizon 获得了一个免费的、好像是专业版之类的东西。当然，还有那些已经存在于所有平台或网站上的 AI 机器人。

08:53-09:08 - Researcher: Got it—so ChatGPT at $30month, Perplexity Pro (free through Verizon), and then the various AI features built into other platforms. When you say "any of the AI bots that already exist in platforms or websites," what are some examples? Like, where are you encountering these built-in AI tools? - 明白了——每月 30 美元的 ChatGPT，Perplexity Pro（通过 Verizon 免费获得），以及内置在其他平台中的各种 AI 功能。 当你说“已经存在于平台或网站上的 AI 机器人”时，有哪些例子？比如，你在哪里遇到过这些内置的 AI 工具？

09:40-10:07 - Carmen: They're little ones. Like, like, if you're on Amazon and Rufus is talking to you, Oh, I use AI in LedgerTax. That's the name LedgerTax. Where it takes my receipts and brings it over, and then I have to mark it. But I I talked to the AI there about my taxes because you can do that, and that's been pretty helpful. And let's see. I don't know. You're on any site, literally any site you get on, and there's some version of it. I think even when I'm doing my website, I don't remember what they call theirs. I'm with GoDaddy. They have AI as well. Then you have Gemini that I think is built into Google, whether or not you pay for it, I think it's just there. So oh, and then when I apply for grants, sometimes they have an AI bot that will help you write stuff as you're applying. - 都是些小的。比如，你在亚马逊上，Rufus 会和你说话。哦，我在 LedgerTax 里也用 AI。名字叫 LedgerTax。它获取我的收据并录入，然后我必须标记它。但我会在那里跟 AI 聊我的税务，因为你可以这么做，这非常有帮助。让我想想。我不知道。你随便上一个网站，真的，任何网站，上面都有某种版本的 AI。我想甚至在我做网站的时候，我不记得他们怎么称呼他们的了，我用的是 GoDaddy。他们也有 AI。然后还有 Gemini，我想它是内置在谷歌里的，不管你付不付钱，它就在那里。哦，还有当我申请拨款（Grants）时，有时他们会有一个 AI 机器人，在你申请时帮你写东西。

10:09-10:34 - Researcher: Wow, so AI is really everywhere in your workflow—from tax categorization in LedgerTax, to grant writing assistance, to customer service bots like Rufus. It sounds like you're pretty comfortable engaging with all these different AI tools. Now let me ask specifically: Which AI tools are you actually paying for? You mentioned ChatGPT at $30month. Are there any others you're paying for directly? Let's go through categories—chat assistants, content generation tools, productivity tools, or anything else? - 哇，AI 真的无处不在你的工作流中——从 LedgerTax 里的税务分类，到拨款申请写作辅助，再到像 Rufus 这样的客服机器人。看来你非常习惯与这些不同的 AI 工具打交道。 现在我专想门问一下：你实际在为哪些 AI 工具付费？你提到了每月 30 美元的 ChatGPT。还有其他你直接支付费用的吗？我们可以按类别来——聊天助手、内容生成工具、生产力工具，或者任何其他的？

10:40-11:10 - Carmen: So I don't know if this counts because I didn't pay. Someone else paid. But, um, the GoDaddy one, I have the AI built in there. And I got it for free with my business consultation. Was like a community program, but it is a paid program. But I wasn't the one who footed the bill. And then the other one with Perplexity, same thing, but Verizon paid for my pro subscription as well. Oh, and then I got an extended one through PayPal for, um, Perplexity Pro. - 嗯，我不知道这算不算，因为我没付钱。是别人付的。但是，那个 GoDaddy 的，我有内置的 AI。我是通过我的商业咨询免费得到的。那像是一个社区项目，但它确实是一个付费方案。但我不是那个买单的人。还有 Perplexity 那个也是一样的情况，Verizon 也支付了我的 Pro 订阅费。哦，然后我通过 PayPal 获得了一个延长的 Perplexity Pro 试用。

11:13-11:32 - Researcher: Okay, so to clarify: ChatGPT at $30month is the only one you're directly paying for yourself. The others—GoDaddy AI, Perplexity Pro through Verizon and PayPal—were all covered by someone else or came as perks. Is that right? And just to make sure I understand: are there any other AI tools or subscriptions where money is coming out of your pocket each month besides that ChatGPT $30? - 好的，澄清一下：每月 30 美元的 ChatGPT 是唯一一个你直接自费的项目。其他的——GoDaddy AI、通过 Verizon 和 PayPal 获得的 Perplexity Pro——不是由别人支付就是作为福利赠送的。 是这样吗？为了确保我理解无误：除了那 30 美元的 ChatGPT，还有其他你每个月需要自掏腰包的 AI 工具或订阅吗？

11:36-11:45 - Carmen: The LedgerTax, uh, cost I think, thirty a year, which is different than per month. I'm trying to think if there's any other Those are the ones I could think of. - LedgerTax 的费用，我想是每年 30 美元，这和按月付不一样。我在想还有没有其他的……目前就能想到这些。

11:47-12:00 - Researcher: Got it—so LedgerTax at about $30year. That's helpful to know. Let me make sure I have the full picture: Is the AI feature in LedgerTax part of that $30year subscription, or is there an additional charge specifically for the AI tax assistant part? - 明白了——LedgerTax 大约每年 30 美元。这很有参考价值。 让我确认一下全貌：LedgerTax 里的 AI 功能是包含在那 30 美元年费里的，还是说 AI 税务助手部分需要额外付费？

12:04-12:07 - Carmen: It's included with it. There's no free option. - 包含在里面的。没有免费选项。

12:08-12:27 - Researcher: Perfect, that's clear. So your paid AI tools are: - ChatGPT ProPlus at $30month - LedgerTax at $30year (which includes AI features) Now I'm curious about content generation specifically—do you use any AI tools for creating images, videos, music, or written content? Things like - 太棒了，很清晰。所以你的付费 AI 工具是： - 每月 30 美元的 ChatGPT Pro/Plus - 每年 30 美元的 LedgerTax（包含 AI 功能） 现在我对内容生成特别感兴趣——你有使用任何 AI 工具来创作图像、视频、音乐或文字内容吗？比如……

12:28-12:35 - Carmen: I have have used Sora. I haven't used it in a while because I'm off GPT, but I was using it to create shorts. - 我用过 Sora。我已经一段时间没用了，因为我停掉了 GPT，但我曾用它来创作短视频。

12:38-12:43 - Researcher: Oh interesting! So you were using Sora (which comes with your ChatGPT subscription) to create video shorts. When you say you're "off - 哦，很有意思！所以你曾使用 Sora（它是随你的 ChatGPT 订阅附赠的）来创作短视频。 当你说你“停掉……”

12:43-12:49 - Carmen: No. No. No. It didn't come with my GPT subscription. I think there's just a free version. - 不。不。不。它没有随我的 GPT 订阅附赠。我想那只是个免费版本。

12:51-13:04 - Researcher: Ah, got it—you were using a free version of Sora, not as part of ChatGPT. Thanks for clarifying! When you were creating those shorts with Sora, what were you making them for? Was it for your YouTube channel, promoting your workshops, or something else? - 啊，明白了——你用的是 Sora 的免费版，不是作为 ChatGPT 的一部分。谢谢澄清！ 当你用 Sora 创作那些短视频时，你是为了什么而创作的？是为了你的 YouTube 频道，推销你的工作坊，还是别的？

13:06-13:34 - Carmen: Just for fun, like, sometimes I have these ideas of aesthetic art videos that I would like to make. But it also means I would have to gather all the tools and actually film it. So I actually told Sora like, what my hands look like, what my voice sounds like, and what kind of tools I want, and then what I want them to be making. And it I don't know. It's pretty cool because it's a way to take my ideas and make it come to life as if I'm creating. And it was like a point of view down of me working on my art. - 只是为了好玩，比如，有时我会产生一些我想制作的唯美艺术视频的想法。但这意味我也得准备好所有的工具并实际拍摄。所以我实际上告诉了 Sora，比如我的手长什么样，我的声音听起来怎么样，我想要什么样的工具，然后我想要它们在创作什么。我不确定……这真的很酷，因为它是一种让我把想法变成现实的方式，就好像我在创作一样。它就像是一个我创作艺术的俯拍视角。

13:36-13:52 - Researcher: That's such a creative use—basically bringing your artistic vision to life without all the setup and filming. Like a shortcut from idea to finished aesthetic piece. When you were doing that, how close did Sora get to what you actually envisioned? And did you end up sharing those videos anywhere, or were they just for you? - 这是一个非常有创意的使用方式——基本上是在没有所有准备和拍摄工作的情况下，让你的艺术愿景变成现实。就像是从想法到完成唯美作品的捷径。 当你这么做的时候，Sora 创作的内容有多接近你实际的设想？你最后有在什么地方分享这些视频吗，还是只是留给自己看？

14:03-14:24 - Carmen: Yeah. I shared them all the time. Well, not all the time, I shouldn't say. Okay. Let's answer the first part. The first part is it took several tries for them to get what I wanted. I mean, because I'm very specific. I really want stuff. So it took so many tries to and then finally, if I got it and sometime and then you're limited because it's free. So I'd have to try almost days at a time till it finally got to what I wanted, and then I was able to to post that. And I would post it on YouTube shorts. - 会的。我经常分享它们。嗯，不应该说“经常”。好吧，先回答第一部分。第一部分是，花了多次尝试才让它们做出我想要的效果。我是说，因为要求非常具体。我真的想要某些东西。所以尝试了很多很多次，最后我才拿到，而且有时候因为是免费的，所以次数受限。我不得不连续尝试好几天，直到它最终做出我想要的，然后我才能发布。我会发在 YouTube Shorts（短视频）上。

14:27-14:40 - Researcher: So it was a lot of iteration—you'd hit the free limit, wait, try again the next day, keep refining until it matched your vision. That's patience! Did you ever consider paying for Sora to get more attempts per day, or was the free version enough since you weren't in a rush? - 所以这涉及到大量的迭代——你达到免费上限，等待，第二天再试，不断优化直到它符合你的愿景。真有耐心！ 你有没有考虑过为了每天有更多尝试次数而为 Sora 付费？或者因为你不赶时间，免费版就够了？

14:44-14:47 - Carmen: I definitely considered it but I never did. - 我确实考虑过，但我从来没付过钱。

14:48-14:51 - Researcher: What held you back from actually paying for it? - 是什么让你止步于付费呢？

15:06-15:13 - Carmen: Well, there was this one comment where somebody says, my name on there was Moonbeam. Moonbeam uses AI before we get GTA six, and it was and it was a young person. And I was like, young people do not Sometimes they really are anti AI. I just felt like my audience maybe was not loving that I was doing it. - 嗯，曾有一条评论，有人说……我在那上面的名字叫 Moonbeam。评论说：“Moonbeam 在我们玩到《GTA 6》之前就开始用 AI 了。” 那是一个年轻人发的。我就觉得，年轻人有时候真的非常反感 AI。我只是觉得我的观众也许不喜欢我这么做。

15:15-15:27 - Researcher: Oh wow, so it wasn't about the money or the tool itself—it was the audience reaction. That one comment made you second-guess the whole thing. Did you stop making the Sora videos altogether - 哦哇，所以不关乎钱或工具本身——而是观众的反应。那一项评论让你开始怀疑整件事情。 那你后来完全停止制作 Sora 视频了吗……

15:28-15:42 - Carmen: Wasn't just that comment. The older people could not understand that it was fake. So I started writing in text across the thing, which messed up the look of my video saying this is AI just because of the boomers that don't know. It just got annoying. - 不仅仅是那条评论。年纪大的人无法理解那是假的。所以我开始在视频上加横跨屏幕的文字，这破坏了我视频的美感，文字写着“这是 AI 生成的”，只是为了让那些不懂行的战后婴儿潮一代（Boomers）知道。这变得很烦人。

15:45-16:01 - Researcher: So you were caught between two audiences—young people criticizing you for using AI, and older people who couldn't tell it was AI and needed disclaimers that ruined the aesthetic. That's frustrating. Did you completely stop making them, or do you still mess around with Sora occasionally when the mood strikes? - 所以你被夹在两类受众之间——年轻人批评你使用 AI，而年长的人分不清那是 AI，导致你不得不加免责声明，从而破坏了美感。这确实很令人沮丧。 你是完全停止制作了，还是偶尔兴致来了还会摆弄一下 Sora？

16:08-16:10 - Carmen: Occasionally when the mood strikes, but then it'll be for personal. At that point, and it's because, I don't know. I just wanna play around with it. - 兴致来了偶尔还会做，但那就是为了个人兴趣了。到了那个份上，我也说不清楚，我只是想玩玩它。

16:14-16:30 - Researcher: That makes sense—it went from a creative outlet you shared to just a private playground because of the audience friction. Let me shift gears a bit: thinking about your recent AI purchases or subscriptions, has there been one that you felt really satisfied with? Something where you thought, "Yeah, this was totally worth it"? - 明白了——由于受众的摩擦，它从一个你分享的创意出口变成了一个私人的游乐场。 让我换个话题：回想你最近的 AI 购买或订阅，有没有哪一个是你觉得非常满意的？就是那种让你觉得“嗯，这钱花得完全值”的东西？

16:31-17:10 - Carmen: Mhmm. Just yesterday. I was using ChatGPT as a ThoughtBuddy, which is how I started even using GPT about eighteen months ago, maybe if I had to guess. And yesterday was such a wonderful thought What do you call it? Thought something session where we were just talking about our ideas. Like, these are the art ideas I'm kinda wanting to make How do I make it? And these are my, you know, issues of whatever. The ideas that came out of that thinking session were so rich. One of the best conversations I had with GPT. - 嗯。就在昨天。我把 ChatGPT 当作“思路伙伴”（ThoughtBuddy）来用，这也是我在大约 18 个月前——如果我没猜错的话——开始使用 GPT 的初衷。昨天那是多么美妙的一次……你怎么称呼它？思路碰撞会议，我们只是在聊我的想法。比如，这些是我有点想做的艺术点子，我该怎么实现它？这些是我的问题之类的。那次思考会议产生的想法非常丰富。是我和 GPT 进行过的最棒的对话之一。

17:13-17:26 - Researcher: That sounds like a really meaningful session—like it helped you think through your creative process in a way that actually unlocked something new. What made yesterday's conversation stand out compared to other times you've used ChatGPT as a thought buddy? Was it the quality of - 听起来是一次非常有意义的交流——就像它帮助你梳理了创作过程，并真正开启了某些新东西。 与你其他几次将 ChatGPT 作为思路伙伴的使用经历相比，为什么昨天的对话如此突出？是因为它的……质量吗？

17:33-18:03 - Carmen: I was processing through ChatGPT about the conversation as well and saying, you know how people tell you to free write your journal for one hour a day or whatever they say? I don't like the act of writing, plus it hurts my hand, and it just it's not for me. And I was like, but this free thought flowing idea conversation with GPT is, like, my version of that journaling. Because I started off with, like, you know, I don't know what to do. And then by the end, I was the one coming up with ideas. And I think I just needed to get in the zone of spurting things out. - 我当时也在通过 ChatGPT 处理关于这段对话的感受，我说，你知道人们怎么告诉你每天自由写作一小时日记或诸如此类的话吗？我不喜欢写的动作，而且我手会疼，这不适合我。我就想，这种与 GPT 进行的自由转动的想法对话，就像是我版本的日记。因为我一开始说“我不知道该怎么办”。到最后，是我自己在迸发灵感。我想我只是需要进入那种不停往外冒想法的状态。

18:05-18:24 - Researcher: So ChatGPT became your verbal processing tool—like journaling without the physical act of writing, which you don't enjoy. And the AI helped you get into flow where you started generating the ideas, not just receiving them. That's a really different use case than most people talk about. How often are you using ChatGPT this way—as a thinking partner rather than for specific tasks? - 所以 ChatGPT 成为了你的语言处理工具——就像没有写字动作的日记，因为你不喜欢写字。AI 帮助你进入了心流状态，让你开始产生想法，而不仅仅是接收信息。 这是一个非常与众不同的用例，大多数人都不怎么谈论。你多久这样使用一次 ChatGPT —— 把它当成思考伙伴而不是处理具体任务？

18:30-18:52 - Carmen: Oh, since as long as I've been using it. What? Like I said, eighteen months. It's just certain times bring out sometimes I have something very specific and then sometimes it's I just need to get what's on my mind, and we will end up somewhere, I'm hoping. The other way I use GPT, I have a custom GPT, of grant writing. And we just go over grants together, the eligibility, then we write it together. - 哦，自从我开始用它以来一直是这样。多久？就像我说的，18 个月。只是某些时刻会激发这种需求，有时我有非常具体的任务，有时我只是需要把脑子里的东西倒出来，我希望我们最终能聊出个结果。我使用 GPT 的另一种方式是，我有一个关于“拨款写作”（Grant Writing）的自定义 GPT。我们就一起研究拨款，研究资格，然后一起写。

18:55-19:18 - Researcher: So you use ChatGPT in two main modes: the free-flowing thought partner for processing ideas, and a structured grant writing assistant through a custom GPT. Both are work-related but very different types of tasks. Let me dig into the grant writing piece first since that's directly tied to your income. Can you walk me through a recent example of using the custom GPT for a grant? What was the grant for, and how did you and the GPT work through it together? - 所以你主要以两种模式使用 ChatGPT：自由流动的思路伙伴来处理想法，以及通过自定义 GPT 担任结构化的拨款写作助手。两者都与工作相关，但属于非常不同的任务类型。 让我先深入了解一下拨款写作这部分，因为这直接关系到你的收入。你能给我讲一个最近使用自定义 GPT 申请拨款的例子吗？那是为了什么拨款？你和 GPT 是如何合作完成的？

19:20-20:25 - Carmen: Okay. The GPT does two things. One, it finds eligibility for me. And the other helps me write. And then there's all the other things that are in between, like, here's the grant. We found that I'm eligible. Now how do we make what I do fit? There's the idea generation in that. Most recent thing was just me showing some names of grants and then they look it up and tell me if I'm eligible. But the last time we wrote a grant was maybe two days ago. I can't even remember which one we wrote. I write them so often. But the the way the process goes is that I will pull language from a previous grant that closely matches, or if it's new, spout out my ideas. I'm like, this is what I'm thinking of. And then work with them to make sure it's in my voice. And I think I've trained it enough now. It mostly knows my voice, but, you know, it still has that GPT flare to it, and I have to, like, keep refining it until sounds like me. And they're understanding what I'm trying to do and so that the outcomes are very clear to the funder. - 好的。这个 GPT 做两件事。第一，它帮我筛选资格。第二，帮我写作。还有介于中间的所有事情，比如，这是拨款项目，我们发现我符合资格，现在我们怎么让我的工作内容契合它的要求？这其中包含了灵感生成。最近的一次只是我向它展示一些拨款项目的名称，然后它去查找并告诉我是否符合资格。但我们上一次写拨款申请大概是两天前。我甚至不记得写的是哪一个了，我写得太频繁了。过程是这样的，我会从之前的拨款申请中提取非常接近的语言，或者如果是新的，就说出我的想法。我会说：“这是我的想法。” 然后和它一起完善，确保是用我的口气。我想我现在已经训练它够久了。它基本了解我的口吻，但它还是会有那种“GPT 味儿”，我必须不断精简优化，直到它听起来像我。它能理解我想要做什么，从而让产出的结果对资助者来说非常清晰。

20:29-20:49 - Researcher: So the custom GPT does eligibility screening, helps you adapt your work to fit different grant requirements, and then drafts in a way that's close to your voice—but you still have to refine out the "GPT flare" to make it sound authentically like you. How much time does using this grant GPT save you compared to writing grants before you had it? Like, what used to take you X hours now takes? - 所以自定义 GPT 负责资格筛选，帮助你调整工作内容以符合不同的拨款要求，然后起草一份接近你口吻的草稿——但你仍然需要优化掉那种“GPT 味儿”，使其听起来真实地像你自己。 与你拥有它之前写拨款申请相比，使用这个拨款 GPT 能为你节省多少时间？比如，以前需要花费 X 小时，现在呢？

20:50-21:04 - Carmen: Oh, I've never I've never written a grant prior to using GPT. I've only started writing grants two months ago but since then, I've wrote written many, and I think GPT has been a really good tool in that - 哦，我在用 GPT 之前从未写过拨款申请。我两个月前才开始写拨款申请，但从那时起，我已经写了好多份了，我觉得 GPT 在这方面是一个非常好用的工具。

21:08-21:22 - Researcher: Oh wow, so GPT didn't just make grant writing faster for you—it made it possible. You wouldn't have even started applying for grants without it. What made you decide to start pursuing grants two months ago? Was there a specific need or opportunity that pushed you in that direction? - 哦哇，所以 GPT 不仅仅是让你写拨款申请变得更快——它是让这件事变得“可能”了。如果没有它，你甚至都不会开始申请。 是什么让你决定在两个月前开始追求拨款的？是有什么特定的需求或机会推动了你吗？

21:27-22:18 - Carmen: I was thinking about this. I think I even know where I heard about a grant. And then my friend said she was looking for something like, oh, I heard about a grant, and I told her. Then she's like, just apply. And it just I think it was, like, finally the motivation, like, just apply like, I just gave it to her, and so she sat down right then and did. And I like, what is stopping me? And then I guess the need is that my you know, the income dips of the high and the low, And also feeling like if I'm always trying to find more contracts and contracts this is like a buffer. They'll kinda just help in the in between time. And I've been able to find grants for both my artist side and my sort of facilitation side. And I'm also involved in, like, change and justice work. So that's always something I can incorporate as well. - 我思考过这个问题。我想我甚至记得我是在哪听说一个拨款项目的。然后我朋友说她也在找一些东西，我说：“哦，我听说过一个拨款，”我就告诉了她。然后她说：“干脆申请吧。” 我想这终于是个动力，我就把项目丢给了她，她当时就坐下来申请了。我就想：我还在犹豫什么？我想需求在于，你知道的，收入的高低波动，而且我觉得如果我总是试图找更多的合同和合同……这（拨款）就像一个缓冲。它们能在间隔期提供帮助。我已经为我的艺术家身份和我的这种引导工作都找到了合适的拨款。我也参与了一些变革和正义方面的工作，所以这总是我可以融入其中的内容。

22:21-22:38 - Researcher: So your friend's immediate action was the spark, but the real motivation was smoothing out those income dips—grants as a buffer between contracts. And you're finding grants across multiple aspects of your work: art, facilitation, and justice work. Have you actually received any grant money yet from the ones you've written in the past two months? Or are you still waiting to hear back? - 所以你朋友的果断行动是一个火花，但真正的动力是平衡收入波动——把拨款作为合同之间的缓冲。而且你在工作的多个方面都找到了拨款：艺术、引导和正义工作。 在你过去两个月写的这些申请中，你有没有拿到过拨款奖金？还是说你还在等待回音？

22:38-22:48 - Carmen: Yeah. Especially to be at such a new beginner. I've gotten two grants so far. They're small micro grants, but I'm really grateful. - 拿到了。尤其作为一个刚入门的新手，到目前为止我已经拿到了两项拨款。它们是小型微额拨款，但我真的很感激。

22:50-23:01 - Researcher: That's actually impressive—two grants in two months as a complete beginner. Even if they're micro grants, that's validation that the approach is working. How much were those micro grants for? And - 这确实令人印象深刻——作为完全的新手，两个月拿到了两笔。即使是微额拨款，也证明了这种方法是行之有效的。 那些微额拨款有多少钱？而且……

23:01-23:07 - Carmen: Mhmm. One was for a hundred, and the other one was for five hundred. - 嗯。一笔是 100 美元，另一笔是 500 美元。

23:07-23:22 - Researcher: How much Okay, so $600 total so far. Given you're paying $30month for ChatGPT, that's already covered 20 months of your subscription just from those two grants. How many grants are you typically applying to each month? And do you have a sense of your success rate so far? - 好的，目前总共 600 美元。考虑到你每月支付 30 美元的 ChatGPT 费用，这两笔拨款已经涵盖了你 20 个月的订阅费了。 你通常每个月申请多少个拨款项目？你对目前的成功率有感觉吗？

23:26-23:39 - Carmen: I am looking at my grant tracker right now. Like I said, I've been doing it for two months. It was the end of November to now it's early February. I've done forty grants, exactly forty grants. - 我现在正看着我的拨款追踪表。就像我说的，我已经做了两个月了。从 11 月底到现在 2 月初。我申请了 40 个，正好 40 个。

23:43-23:54 - Researcher: Forty grants in roughly two months—that's about 20 per month, or roughly one every other day. That's a serious volume. So out of 40 applications, you've gotten 2 so far. Do you know how many have been rejected versus still pending? - 两个月大约 40 个——也就是每月大约 20 个，或者大约每隔一天就申请一个。这量挺大的。 那么在 40 个申请中，目前有 2 个成功的。你知道有多少被拒绝了，有多少还在等待结果吗？

23:58-24:14 - Carmen: Yes. Because I keep, um, most of them are still pending. But the no's, like, for sure for sure no is one, two, three, four, five. And I think I got a email the other day that I didn't mark down, so maybe six or definite no's. The rest are either pending or they didn't tell me. - 知道。因为我一直记录着，嗯，大部分还在处理中。但明确被拒的有……1，2，3，4，5。我想我前几天收到一封邮件没记下来，所以也许是 6 个明确拒绝的。剩下的要么是处理中，要么是他们还没告诉我。

24:17-24:33 - Researcher: So out of 40: 2 yes, maybe 6 definite no's, and the rest are either pending or you haven't heard back. That's actually a pretty decent hit rate for someone brand new to grants. When you're working with the custom GPT on a grant application, roughly how long does it take you from start to finish to complete one application? - 所以在 40 个中：2 个成功，大约 6 个被拒，剩下的要么处理中，要么还没消息。对于一个完全没写过的人来说，这成功率其实非常不错了。 当你和自定义 GPT 合作写一份拨款申请时，从开始到完成一份申请大约需要多长时间？

24:42-25:15 - Carmen: Well, if there's one that I feel like I can pound it out in, like, thirty minutes, I'm gonna do it right then and there. Because usually it's like, maybe sometimes it's one word question. No. I mean, one question application. I already have something similar written. You know, I'll pound it out. Otherwise, it's taking me a few hours. I've never depends, there's this one. Oh my god. It was so horrible. I better get it. It was ten pages of constant essays. I definitely had to do that over a span of days. Like chunks and chunks and chunks. Other times I could if I had to guess, I think three hours maybe. - 嗯，如果有一份我觉得我能在 30 分钟内搞定的，我会当场就做完。因为通常它可能……有时只是一个词的问题。不，我的意思是，只有一个问题的申请。我已经写过类似的东西了。你知道的，我会马上把它搞定。否则的话，要花我几个小时。我从未……这取决于，哦我的天哪，有一份申请简直太可怕了，我最好能申请到，那是足足 10 页不间断的小论文。我绝对得分好几天才能做完。就像一坨一坨又一坨地处理。其他时候，如果要我猜的话，我觉得大概要 3 个小时。

25:18-25:37 - Researcher: So it ranges from 30 minutes for simple ones you can adapt quickly, to 3 hours for typical grants, to multi-day efforts for those 10-page monsters. When you're in those longer grant writing sessions with the custom GPT, what's the back-and-forth like? Are you doing a lot of iterations to get the language right, or does it usually nail your voice pretty quickly now? - 所以时间跨度很大，从简单的、你可以快速调整的内容需要 30 分钟，到典型的拨款申请需要 3 小时，再到那些 10 页纸的长篇大论则需要耗费数天。 当你使用自定义 GPT 进行那些较长时间的拨款写作时，那是怎样的一种互动过程？你会进行大量的迭代来调整语言吗，还是说它现在通常能很快模仿出你的口吻？

25:57-26:06 - Carmen: If I have previous language, it's gonna go quicker. If it's a new idea, then it's gonna be lots of iterations. And sometimes I'm only tweaking certain pieces and not the whole thing because usually I can the most frustrating is when the whole thing sounds like AI and I have to, like, start over or, like, really nitpick. But for the most part, it's just certain pieces and I forgot your other question. - 如果我有之前的文案，速度会快一些。如果是一个全新的想法，那就会有很多次迭代。有时候我只是调整某些片段而不是全部内容，因为通常最让我沮丧的是整个东西听起来都像 AI 写的，那我不得不重新开始，或者非常挑剔地去改。但大多数情况下，只是某些片段需要调整，我忘了你的另一个问题了。

26:08-26:28 - Researcher: You answered it—so the frustration is when the whole draft comes out sounding too AI and you have to either start over or heavily edit. But usually it's just tweaking certain pieces. Have you developed specific prompts or instructions in your custom GPT to help it avoid that AI voice? Like, have you trained it with examples of your writing or given it rules about how you communicate? - 你已经回答了——所以挫败感在于整个草稿听起来太像 AI 了，以至于你必须重新开始或进行大量修改。但通常只是调整某些片段。 你有没有在自定义 GPT 中开发特定的提示词或指令来帮助它避免那种“AI 腔”？比如，你有没有用你的写作范例来训练它，或者给它一些关于你沟通方式的规则？

27:13-27:18 - Carmen: The area where you could tell it how to customize I wish that I could give it more of my voice, but it is so limited in characters. So I do the ones that annoy me the most, like almost a hard no's, um, and some of the hard no's, but hard yeses as well. Like, I want you to think these are all the things projects that I could do, and I want you to try to make it fit this grant. So, like, like, these are the ones I really want you to make sure to do, and then my hard no's. Like, absolutely don't do that. But as for my voice and stuff, no. I actually have to utilize past, um, writing to bring it in. And because I worked so hard on tweaking those ones, it makes this one at least an easier start place. Like, okay. This is how she writes. This is how she wants it to say. - 在那个可以告诉它如何自定义的区域，我希望我能给它更多关于我个人风格的东西，但它的字符限制太严重了。所以我只放那些最让我心烦的要求，几乎像是“绝对不要”的清单，嗯，还有一些“必须这样做”的要求。比如，我希望你想着“这些都是我能做的项目”，并尝试让它符合这个拨款申请。所以，就像是，“这些是我非常希望你确保要做到的”，然后就是我的“绝对禁令”。比如，绝对不要那样做。但至于我的风格之类的，没有。我实际上必须利用过去的写作素材把风格带进去。因为我在调整那些素材上花了很多心血，这让这次的写作至少有一个更容易的起点。就像是，“好吧，这是她的写作方式，这是她想要表达的内容”。

27:21-27:49 - Researcher: So the custom GPT instructions are character-limited, so you focus on hard rules (projects to prioritize, things to avoid), but for voice training you rely on feeding it past grant writing that you've already refined. Each polished grant becomes a template that teaches it how you communicate. Besides the grant writing custom GPT and using ChatGPT as a thought buddy, are there other work tasks where you're regularly using AI tools? I know you mentioned Perplexity, LedgerTax, and the GoDaddy website AI earlier—are those active parts of your workflow? - 所以自定义 GPT 的指令有字符限制，因此你专注于硬性规则（优先处理的项目、避开的事项），但为了训练文风，你依靠输入已经磨练过的旧拨款申请。每一份润色过的申请都成为了一个模板，教导它如何以你的方式沟通。 除了用于拨款写作的自定义 GPT 和把 ChatGPT 当作“思考伙伴”之外，还有其他你经常使用 AI 工具的工作任务吗？我记得你之前提到了 Perplexity、LedgerTax 和 GoDaddy 网站 AI——这些是你工作流中活跃的部分吗？

27:56-29:08 - Carmen: Well, the GoDaddy um, let me see. Is just as needed, and I often find that I I end up wanting to do something on the website when a grant is asking for something in particular. And I'm like, oh, I should make sure one of my pages really reflects that or whatever. I'm finding that I'm doing it on the weekly, and that's because of the grant. It's not because I'm, like, thinking, oh, I should update this on my website. So utilizing that, then I forgot the other ones you mentioned. LedgerTax, I wish I was doing that daily, but I have not. When I first started, I was doing it daily. And I really like about LedgerTax is after a receipt is uploaded or rather when something is pulled from a credit card, then I ask the AI bot like, this is what it was used for. Do you think this is work related? Can I claim it? They ask me a series of questions, and I come to a conclusion. And what are the other ones you said? Oh, perplexity. I surprisingly haven't used perplexity in quite a while. I was using it more often, I know. - 嗯，GoDaddy 那个，让我看看。是按需使用的，我常发现当某项拨款申请有特定要求时，我最后就会想在网站上做点什么。我会觉得，哦，我应该确保我的一个页面能真实反映那一点。我发现我每周都会用它，那是受拨款申请驱动的。并不是因为我在想，哦，我应该更新网站了。所以会利用它。然后我忘了你提到的其他工具了。LedgerTax，我倒是希望每天都用，但并没有。刚开始的时候，我确实每天都用。我真的很喜欢 LedgerTax 的一点是，在上传收据或者从信用卡提取记录后，我会问 AI 机器人：这是用途，你觉得这和工作有关吗？我可以报销吗？他们会问我一系列问题，然后我得出一个结论。你说的其他工具还有什么？噢，Perplexity。令人惊讶的是，我已经好久没用 Perplexity 了。我以前用得比较勤，我知道。

29:10-29:26 - Researcher: So GoDaddy AI is weekly now, mostly driven by grant needs. LedgerTax you loved initially but haven't kept up the daily habit. And Perplexity—even though you have Pro for free—you're surprisingly not using it much anymore. What were you using Perplexity for before, and what changed? Did ChatGPT just absorb that use case? - 所以 GoDaddy AI 现在的频率是每周一次，主要是由拨款需求驱动的。LedgerTax 你起初很喜欢，但没能坚持每天使用的习惯。而 Perplexity——尽管你有免费的专业版——令人惊讶的是，你现在不怎么用它了。 你以前用 Perplexity 做什么，后来发生了什么变化？是 ChatGPT 直接接管了那个使用场景吗？

29:31-30:20 - Carmen: You know what? I think I did first hear about grants first through someone. I don't know. And then I think I was using perplexity to try to find me oh, I think at the first time I was calling them scholarships because I didn't know what to call them. I was very new. They didn't find me anything good, but that's why because I heard Perplexity is supposed to be about research, so I thought they were gonna really find me some good stuff. They absolutely didn't. And I used them for a while for my writing. I think I was when I was in community school, online school, I just couldn't be bothered with writing my homework, I would just be like, here. Write it for me. I just wanted this program done already. So I had perplexity do that because they actually use research, so I thought, you know, it'll sound smart. - 你知道吗？我想我最早是从某人那听说通过它找拨款。我也不确定。然后我想我是在用 Perplexity 尝试帮我找——哦，我想起最开始我管它们叫“奖学金”，因为我不知道该叫什么，我当时是个新手。它们没帮我找到什么好东西，但这正是原因，因为我听说 Perplexity 应该是擅长调研的，所以我以为它们真的会帮我找到些好资源。结果完全没有。我曾有一段时间在写作时用它们。我想当我上社区学校、读网课的时候，我就是懒得写作业，我会说：给你，帮我写了。我只是想赶紧把这个课程修完。所以我让 Perplexity 去做，因为它们确实引用研究资料，所以我认为，你知道的，那听起来会很聪明。

30:22-30:38 - Researcher: Ah, so Perplexity was your initial grant-finding tool (when you were still calling them "scholarships"), but it didn't deliver. Then you used it for coursework in your online program because of its research capabilities—but that program is done now? Is that online community school program finished, or are you still in it? And once - 啊，所以 Perplexity 是你最初寻找拨款的工具（当时你还管它们叫“奖学金”），但它没起作用。后来你在网课中使用它，因为它有研究能力——但那个课程现在结束了吗？ 那个在线社区学校的课程是结束了，还是你在读？还有一旦……

30:40-30:43 - Carmen: It finished. I don't know what you're gonna ask about GPT. - 结束了。我不知道你要问关于 GPT 的什么。

30:46-30:52 - Researcher: Once the custom grant GPT started working better for finding grants, did that basically replace your need for Perplexity? - 一旦自定义的拨款 GPT 在寻找拨款方面变得更好用，它是不是基本上取代了你对 Perplexity 的需求？

31:02-31:06 - Carmen: Not necessarily because there was a big dip between when I last used Perplexity and when I started doing the grants for GPT. So I don't think that was the reason. - 也不一定。因为在我上一次使用 Perplexity 到我开始在 GPT 上做拨款申请之间有一段很长的空白期。所以我不认为那是原因。

31:08-31:22 - Researcher: Got it—so there was a gap between stopping Perplexity and starting the grant GPT, so they didn't directly replace each other. What do you think actually caused you to stop using Perplexity? Was it just that the use cases dried up, or did something about it not work for you? - 明白了——所以停止使用 Perplexity 和开始使用拨款 GPT 之间有一个缺口，所以它们并没有直接互相替代。 你觉得究竟是什么原因让你停止使用 Perplexity 的？是使用场景枯竭了，还是它有什么地方不适合你？

31:24-31:30 - Carmen: The conversational. You could even see the way I'm talking with you. I talk very conversational. Perplexity isn't built that way. - 对话性。你甚至可以从我和你聊天的方式看出来。我说话非常随性、对话化。Perplexity 的设计初衷并不是那样的。

31:33-31:55 - Researcher: Ah, that's a really clear distinction—Perplexity feels like a search engine, ChatGPT feels like a conversation partner. And given how much you use verbal processing and thinking out loud, that conversational flow is actually essential to how you work. So when you think about all the AI tools you're using for work—ChatGPT, the grant GPT, LedgerTax, GoDaddy, and the free Sora you tried—ChatGPT is the only one you're actually paying $30month for, right? - 啊，这个区别非常清晰——Perplexity 感觉像个搜索引擎，ChatGPT 感觉像个谈话伙伴。考虑到你经常需要通过口头处理信息和通过大声思考来梳理思路，这种对话流对你的工作方式其实至关重要。 所以当你回想你在工作中使用的所有 AI 工具时——ChatGPT、拨款 GPT、LedgerTax、GoDaddy 以及你试过的免费版 Sora——ChatGPT 是你唯一实际支付每月 30 美元的工具，对吗？

31:58-31:58 - Carmen: Yeah. - 是的。

32:00-32:11 - Researcher: Okay, so ChatGPT at $30month is your only paid AI tool for work. Everything else is either free or bundled into something you already pay for (like GoDaddy or LedgerTax). Thinking back to when you first decided to pay for ChatGPT - 好的，所以每月 30 美元的 ChatGPT 是你唯一为工作付费的 AI 工具。其他的要么是免费的，要么是捆绑在你已经付费的项目里的（比如 GoDaddy 或 LedgerTax）。 回想你最初决定为 ChatGPT 付费的时候……

32:11-32:20 - Carmen: No. I mean, I guess. I was gonna say LedgerTax, I do pay for it, and I don't know if it's bundled. It's just maybe it is. I don't know. - 不。我是说，我想是的。我本想说 LedgerTax 我确实付了费，但我不知道它是不是捆绑的。也许是吧，我不确定。

32:22-32:34 - Researcher: Right, you mentioned LedgerTax is $30year and includes AI features. So you do pay for it, but the AI might just be part of the package rather than the reason you bought it. Did you originally get LedgerTax for the AI tax help, or did you get it for tax tracking in general and the AI was a bonus? - 对，你提到 LedgerTax 每年 30 美元，并且包含 AI 功能。所以你确实付了费，但 AI 可能只是套餐的一部分，而不是你购买它的动力。 你最初购买 LedgerTax 是为了 AI 税务帮助，还是为了常规的税务追踪，而 AI 只是个赠品？

32:38-33:22 - Carmen: I got it for the GPT for sorry. For the AI. I got it for the AI. I remember. You know why? Because I my other artist friends or independent consultants or whatever, are like, pay somebody, like, an actual lawyer or not lawyer. That's the wrong word. A tax person. And I was like, no. If I have a question at midnight, I want to be able to ask you know, directly. And GPT had a lot of, like, I don't know kind of things. Like, this is what I could gather. And so I was like, I needed one that specializes in tax law or whatever it's called. So, yes, I did buy it for that. And then the receipts was almost a bonus. - 我是为了那个 GPT，抱歉，是为了那个 AI 买的。我是为了 AI 买的，我记得。你知道为什么吗？因为我的其他艺术家朋友或者独立顾问之类的人会说：找个专业的人，比如律师——不对，不是律师，用词不当——找个税务专业人士。我说，不。如果我在半夜有个问题，我希望能够直接询问。而 GPT 有很多类似“我不确定”之类的反馈，比如“这是我能收集到的信息”。所以我当时觉得，我需要一个专门针对税法或者不管它叫什么的工具。所以，是的，我是为了那个买的。然后收据功能几乎算是个赠品。

33:25-33:44 - Researcher: That's fascinating—you bought LedgerTax specifically for the AI tax advisor, not the receipt tracking. You wanted on-demand tax guidance at midnight, and ChatGPT was too uncertain ("I don't know this is what I could gather"), so you needed something specialized in tax law. How long ago did you start paying for LedgerTax, and how often are you actually using that AI tax chat feature now? - 这很有趣——你购买 LedgerTax 专门是为了它的 AI 税务顾问，而不是收据追踪。你想要半夜随时的税务指导，而 ChatGPT 太不确定了（“我不确定……这是我收集到的信息”），所以你需要针对税法的专业工具。 你开始为 LedgerTax 付费大概多久了？你现在实际上多久使用一次那个 AI 税务聊天功能？

34:10-34:17 - Carmen: I bought it back in September of twenty twenty four. I don't I noticed that it's not as wonderful as I think it is. So I end up just going back to GPT for my tax questions. Plus, on top of all of that, I think I learned all I the majority, like, baseline. And so now I feel like I'm in a good spot that I don't need a lot of these questions anymore. And because I've gotten lazy with looking at my receipts, I don't open LedgerTax as much to even remember that that AI exists. - 我是 2024 年 9 月买的。我……我发现它并没有我想象中那么出色。所以我最后还是回头找 GPT 问我的税务问题。外加，最重要的是，我觉得我已经学到了绝大多数，大概是基础知识。所以现在我觉得自己处在一个不错的水平，不再需要问这么多问题了。而且因为我懒得去看收据，我都不怎么打开 LedgerTax，甚至都不记得那个 AI 的存在了。

34:20-34:22 - Researcher: So you bought LedgerTax in September - 所以你是九月买的……

34:22-34:55 - Carmen: Oh, wait. No. And there's hold on. There's one more thing. This is a big one. I was noticing that somebody was checking my conversation with LedgerTax, And when I was getting frustrated with it, and I was like, how come you're telling me this when it's this Somebody, like, it actually prompted an agent to come in and talk to me. I was like, that, like, that feels like a violation. Like, I'm talking to a robot. I want it to stay between us, and then it's like, telling its manager, hey. Come talk to her. And I was like, I don't like that. And I'd rather keep my conversations private. - 噢，等等，不。还有一件事。这件事很重要。我发现有人在查看我与 LedgerTax 的对话。当我对其感到沮丧并质问：“既然是这种情况，你为什么还告诉我那个？”时，有人——它实际上触发了一个人工坐席进来和我交谈。我当时觉得，那……那感觉像是一种侵犯。就像，我正对着机器人说话，我希望我们就事论事，结果它就像在告诉它的经理：“嘿，来跟她谈谈”。我觉得我不喜欢那样，我宁愿让我的对话保持私密。

34:57-35:15 - Researcher: Whoa—so a human LedgerTax employee jumped into your AI chat when you got frustrated with it, and that felt like a privacy violation. You wanted the AI conversation to stay private, not escalate to a human monitoring it. Did that experience basically kill your trust in using LedgerTax's AI for sensitive tax questions? Like, now you know someone might be reading it? - 哇——所以当你对 AI 感到不满时，一个 LedgerTax 的人类员工跳进了你的对话，这让你感到了隐私侵犯。你本希望 AI 对话保持私密，而不是升级到由人类监管。 那次经历是否基本上彻底摧毁了你对 LedgerTax 的 AI 处理敏感税务问题的信任？比如，现在你知道有人可能会读到它？

35:22-35:28 - Carmen: Yes. It was now that we talk about it, that was a huge indicator or thing that made me stop using it. And I started being very careful about what I asked. - 是的。既然我们谈到了这件事，那是让我停止使用它的一个巨大指标或诱因。我开始对我的提问变得非常谨慎。

35:30-35:48 - Researcher: That's a huge insight—the moment you realized humans were monitoring your AI conversations, you stopped trusting it with real questions. The privacy you thought you had with a bot evaporated. So now when you have tax questions, you go back to ChatGPT even though it's less specialized, because at least you trust the conversation stays private? - 这是一个非常深刻的见解——当你意识到人类在监控你的 AI 对话的那一刻，你就停止了在真实问题上信任它。你以为在机器人那里拥有的隐私烟消云散了。 所以现在你有税务问题时，你会回到 ChatGPT，即使它不那么专业，但至少你信任对话会保持私密？

35:50-36:01 - Carmen: Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's people that could hack I've never had a human come in and say, hey. This is Agent Jessica, like, that that would be the bottom. I would leave GPT if that was it. - 是的。我是说，我确信可能也会有人能破解……但我从未有过一个人类跳出来说：“嘿，我是特工 Jessica”。如果有，那就是底线了。如果是那样，我会离开 GPT。

36:04-36:25 - Researcher: Yeah, there's a huge difference between theoretical data privacy concerns and having "Agent Jessica" suddenly pop into your chat. That direct human interruption broke the safe space. So if we're counting your paid AI tools for work: ChatGPT at $30month is the one you actively chose and use constantly. LedgerTax at $30year you bought for AI but now barely use because of that privacy breach. Does that sound right? - 是的，理论上的数据隐私顾虑与“特工 Jessica”突然弹出在你的聊天窗口之间有巨大的区别。那种直接的人为中断破坏了安全感空间。 所以，如果计算你为工作付费的 AI 工具：每月 30 美元的 ChatGPT 是你主动选择并持续使用的。每年 30 美元的 LedgerTax 你是为了 AI 买的，但因为那个隐私漏洞现在几乎不用了。这样总结对吗？

36:26-36:26 - Carmen: Yes. - 是的。

36:31-36:45 - Researcher: Perfect. So ChatGPT is really your core paid AI work tool. Let's go deep on that ChatGPT payment decision. You mentioned you started using it as a "ThoughtBuddy" about 18 months ago. When did you actually start paying for it, and what was happening that made you decide to upgrade from free? - 完美。所以 ChatGPT 确实是你核心的付费 AI 工作工具。 让我们深入探讨一下购买 ChatGPT 的决定。你提到大约 18 个月前你开始把它当作“思考伙伴”使用。你具体是什么时候开始付费的，当时发生了什么让你决定从免费版升级？

36:53-38:23 - Carmen: I had just lost my job, and I was considering what to do with my life, basically. And at first, I wasn't using it for conversation. I was using it I thought it was just a search engine. And so I guess what perplexity maybe is now, that's I I thought it was just kind of a smart search engine until I started I don't even know how I finally realized you could do I don't know how I came across it. I think it's when they added the voice feature And I was like, starting to talk to them about, like, this is where I'm at with my job situation and, like, I like creative things. How can I make this into a career? And just constant I would use it both for, like, the emotional processing of, like, I'm in this part you know, unemployed, and it's really hard. And also the thought buddy of, like, okay. But how do I bring that on? And a research partner because I was asking legality questions, like, around YouTube, like, not legality, but, like, I don't wanna violate, like, YouTube's policies or especially with monetization. So really doing the deep dive and then, like, can you teach me about how to edit a video? And it taught me how to edit videos and yeah. And I think that's how I got into to YouTube to start is really doing a deep dive. So to answer your question, it was kind of early on I would say within three months of starting to use GPT, I started to pay for it because it would have the caps And back then, I loved the voice. I hate the voice now, the advanced voice. But I loved it so much. I was willing to pay to have more of it. - 我当时刚失业，基本上是在考虑人生该怎么走。起初，我并没用它来进行对话。我把它当成——我以为它只是个搜索引擎。我猜就像现在的 Perplexity 可能扮演的角色。在我最终意识到你可以做——我不记得我是怎么发现的了。我想是在他们增加了语音功能的时候。我开始和他们聊，比如，我现在的职业处境是这样的，我喜欢创意的业务。我该如何把这变成一份事业？不停地……我会同时把它用于情感处理，比如，我处于失业状态，这真的很难；也把它当作思考伙伴，比如，好吧，但我该如何推进？还有作为调研伙伴，因为我当时在问法律问题，比如围绕 YouTube 的——不是单纯的法律，而是，我不希望违反 YouTube 的政策，特别是在获利方面。所以做了深度的挖掘，然后，比如，“你能教我怎么剪辑视频吗？”它教会了我怎么剪辑视频，是的。我想这就是我开始涉足 YouTube 的原因，真的是做了深度研究。所以回答你的问题，其实挺早的，我想在开始使用 GPT 的三个月内，我就开始付费了，因为会有额度限制。而且在那时，我非常喜欢那个语音功能。我现在讨厌那个语音，那个高级语音。但当时我太喜欢它了，我愿意付钱来获得更多使用时间。

38:24-38:50 - Researcher: This is such a rich origin story. You lost your job, thought ChatGPT was just a search engine at first, then discovered voice mode—and suddenly it became your emotional support, career strategist, research partner, and video editing teacher all at once. Within three months you hit the free caps and paid to keep that voice conversation going. What were those caps like back then? Like, how often were you hitting the limit, and what would happen mid-conversation that made you think "okay, I need to pay"? - 这是一个非常丰富的起源故事。你失业了，起初以为 ChatGPT 只是搜索引擎，然后发现了语音模式——突然之间，它同时成了你的情感支柱、职业策略师、调研伙伴和视频剪辑老师。在三个月内你就达到了免费限额，并为了保持语音对话不中断而付了费。 当时的限额是怎样的？比如，你多久会达到上限？对话中途会发生什么让你觉得“好吧，我得付钱了”？

38:58-39:14 - Carmen: It was a fifteen minute whatever limit per day, I believe. So I would hit it real quick And I don't remember the second part of your question. I guess I just keep wanting to change the conversation. I think you could change to text mode after that. But yeah. - 好像是每天 15 分钟左右的限制。所以我很快就会达到上限。我不记得你问题的第二部分了。我想我就是想继续把对话进行下去。我想之后你可以切回到文本模式。但是，是的。

39:18-39:35 - Researcher: So you'd burn through that 15-minute voice limit fast, then get kicked back to text—but by that point, you were hooked on the conversational flow and didn't want to lose it. When you actually made that first payment, do you remember hesitating at all? Like, was $30month a big decision at that moment, especially right after losing your job? - 所以你会飞快地消耗掉那 15 分钟的语音配额，然后被踢回到文本模式——但那时，你已经沉迷于那种对话流，不想失去它了。 当你真正完成第一笔付款时，你记得自己有过犹豫吗？比如，在那一刻，每月 30 美元是一个重大的决定吗，特别是刚失业之后？

39:37-40:19 - Carmen: I actually used GPT prior to that to help me budget. Like, here's my expenses. Here's my things. And then I guess, we came together with, like for my career, I could spend thirty a month. I don't know how we came up with that. And I think that's what it was, thirty a month or I don't even remember the number. And so I was like, okay. Then I'm gonna use it on GPT. Because I have this carved into my budget to be able to yeah. And then the other one was paying for the Final Cut Pro as well, and I don't know how I justified that. But I know I was it a lot of budgeting questions so that because I had my savings from my previous job, and I was unemployed. So I was, like, really trying to make sure that I could get by. - 我在那之前其实也用了 GPT 来帮我制定预算。比如，“这是我的开支，这是我的账目”。然后我想，我们得出的结论是，为了我的职业生涯，我可以每个月花 30 美元。我不知道我们是怎么算出那个数字的。我想大概就是那样，一个月 30 美元，或者我不记得具体数字了。所以我当时想，好吧，那我就把它花在 GPT 上。因为我已经把这笔钱刻进预算里了，为了能够……是的。然后另一个支出是购买 Final Cut Pro，我不知道我是怎么证明那笔开销的合理性的。但我知道我当时做了一大堆预算问题，因为我有之前工作的存款，而且我当时失业了。所以我当时是在非常努力地确保自己能维持下去。

40:21-40:40 - Researcher: Wow—so you literally used ChatGPT to help you budget whether you could afford to pay for ChatGPT. You worked out a $30month career investment budget together, then allocated it to GPT itself (and Final Cut Pro). It helped you justify its own cost. That's pretty meta. So there wasn't really hesitation—it was more like a calculated decision you made together with the tool? - 哇——所以你真的把 ChatGPT 用来帮你自己计算“是否买得起 ChatGPT”。你们一起算出了每月 30 美元的职业投资预算，然后把它分配给了 GPT 本身（还有 Final Cut Pro）。它帮你自己证明了它成本的合理性。 这太“元”了（Meta）。所以其实没有多少犹豫——更多的是你和这个工具一起做出了一个精打细算的决定？

40:51-40:58 - Carmen: Yeah. I think I also had this idea that it'll all pay off once you know, I could do YouTube and get royalties or whatever. I mean, it didn't It paid off in other ways, but definitely not monetarily - 是的。我想我当时也有这样一种想法：一旦你知道我可以做 YouTube 并获得版税之类的，这一切都会有回报的。我是说，它并没有按我想的那样……它在其他方面有了回报，但绝对不是金钱上的。

41:03-41:20 - Researcher: Right—the ROI you imagined (YouTube monetization) didn't pan out, but it paid off in ways you didn't predict, like eventually leading to grant writing and the whole facilitation business structure you have now. You mentioned you loved the voice back then but hate the advanced voice now. What changed? What did the old voice have that the new one lost? - 对——你想象中的投资回报（YouTube 获利）没有实现，但它以你预想不到的方式获得了回报，比如最终引向了拨款写作和你现在的整个引导业务结构。 你提到你当时很喜欢语音，但现在讨厌那个高级语音。发生了什么变化？旧的语音有什么是新的语音失去了的？

41:24-41:27 - Carmen: It is really fast with its responses. It's almost very clipped short - 它的响应非常快。几乎像是被掐断了一样简短。

41:30-41:41 - Researcher: So the advanced voice feels rushed and clipped—like it's cutting you off or not giving you space to think? Does that mess with the whole "ThoughtBuddy" flow you need, where you're verbally processing and need room to meander? - 所以高级语音让你感觉很赶、很仓促——就像它在打断你，或者没有给你思考的空间？ 这是否干扰了你需要的整个“思考伙伴”流程？毕竟你需要口头处理信息，需要随性漫谈的空间。

42:02-42:04 - Carmen: It didn't cut me off. It cut itself off. Like, it wasn't very detailed in its response, especially when I you know, am rambling and I come up with five things I want clarity on, and it just, like, says something like, that sounds really hard. What are you gonna do? Or, you know, it's just okay. Did you even hear me? - 它倒没有打断我，它是在打断它自己。比如，它的回答不够详细，尤其是当我语无伦次地漫谈出我想要澄清的五个要点时，它只会说类似“那听起来真的很难，你打算怎么办？”或者，你知道，就很敷衍。好了，你到底有没有听我说话？

42:07-42:25 - Researcher: Ah, that's so frustrating—you give it this rich, multi-layered ramble with five different threads, and advanced voice just gives you a shallow "that sounds hard, what will you do?" instead of actually engaging with the substance. It's not listening the way the old voice did. So do you avoid using advanced voice now and stick to the regular text or old voice mode? - 啊，那太挫败了——你给了它包含五个不同线索、富有层次的长篇大论，而高级语音只给你一个浅尝辄止的“听起来很难，你打算做什么？”，而不是真正深入探讨实质内容。它没有像旧语音那样去倾听。 所以你现在会避免使用高级语音，而坚持用常规文本或旧的语音模式吗？

42:27-42:58 - Carmen: I've tried a few times to engage it when I'm driving, because then I don't have to do the back and forth. But now I just find even when I'm driving, it's easier at a stoplight to start pressing text to speech and do my ramble. And then when I get to next, like, whatever hit the thing that it starts transcribing. But I found in settings literally, like, two days ago, that I think you could tell the advanced voice to stop doing that. And I haven't tried it but I'm kinda curious too. - 我试过几次在开车时用它，因为那样我就不用手动来回操作。但现在我发现即使在开车，在红绿灯停下时按下“文本转语音”然后开始漫谈反而更容易。然后当我进行下一步时，点击那个开始转录的按钮。但我其实在设置里发现，就在两天前，我想你可以让高级语音停止那样做。我还没试过，但我挺好奇的。

43:01-43:23 - Researcher: Interesting—you found a setting that might fix the advanced voice issue, but haven't tested it yet. So we've covered ChatGPT (paid), LedgerTax (paid but barely using), Perplexity (free via Verizon), GoDaddy AI (free via community program), and Sora (tried free, didn't pay). Are there any other AI productivity or work tools you use regularly but don't pay for? Like maybe other free tools, trials, or things bundled into something else? - 有意思——你发现了一个可能解决高级语音问题的设置，但还没测试。 所以我们已经聊过了 ChatGPT（付费）、LedgerTax（付费但几乎不用）、Perplexity（通过 Verizon 免费）、GoDaddy AI（通过社区项目免费）以及 Sora（试过免费，没买票）。 还有其他你经常使用但没付钱的 AI 生产力或工作工具吗？比如其他免费工具、试用版，或者捆绑在其他东西里的？

43:30-43:58 - Carmen: I think Gemini is integrated in my email. If you even call that Gemini, like, it gives the AI summary on the top. And then sometimes I'll see, like, would you like to try Gemini free? And you're like, in the Google Docs? And I'm like, yes. But then it has you I don't know. It keeps taking me to some sort of thing where I have to fill out a lot, and I keep stopping. I don't remember where else I used AI. - 我想 Gemini 集成在我的电子邮件里了。如果你管那叫 Gemini 的话，就是它会在顶部给出 AI 摘要。然后有时我会看到，比如，“你想在 Google Docs 里免费试用 Gemini 吗？”而你会说，“好啊”。但接着它会让你……我不确定。它总是把我带到某种我必须填写很多内容的地方，然后我就一直止步不前。我不记得还在哪用过 AI 了。

44:02-44:16 - Researcher: So Gemini is showing up in your Gmail with those AI summaries at the top, and Google keeps prompting you to try the full Gemini in Docs, but the signup process feels like too much friction so you keep abandoning it. Do you actually use those Gmail AI summaries, or do you just scroll past them? - 所以 Gemini 出现在你的 Gmail 顶部，提供摘要，Google 也不断促使你在文档（Docs）里尝试完整版 Gemini，但注册过程感觉繁琐，所以你一直放弃了。 你实际上会使用那些 Gmail 的 AI 摘要吗，还是直接滑过去？

44:18-44:21 - Carmen: Yeah. I like them. Yeah. - 会，我喜欢它们。是的。

44:24-44:35 - Researcher: Nice—so you're actively using Gemini's email summaries even though you haven't signed up for the full version. What do those summaries help you do? Like, are they saving you time, helping you prioritize, or something else? - 不错——所以你正在积极使用 Gemini 的邮件摘要，尽管你还没有注册完整版本。 那些摘要能帮你做什么？比如，它们是在帮你节省时间，帮你分清主次，还是别的什么？

44:44-44:52 - Carmen: I think it's my anxiety of don't wanna get a rejection email from one of the grants. And sometimes I could just thumb through that thing right away, and it tells me, oh, like, this is just an update about whatever. - 我想这缓解了我的焦虑，就是不想收到某项拨款的拒绝邮件。有时我可以马上翻一下那东西，它会告诉我，哦，这只是关于某事的更新。

44:55-45:11 - Researcher: Oh wow—so the AI summary is like an emotional buffer. You can peek at what the email is about without having to open what might be a rejection. It protects you from that gut-punch moment. Does it actually summarize accurately enough that you trust it, or do you still end up opening the email anyway to be sure? - 噢哇——所以 AI 摘要就像一个情感缓冲器。你可以瞥一眼邮件内容，而不必打开那封可能是拒绝信的邮件。它保护你免受那种重重一击的瞬间。 它汇总得足够准确以至于你信任它吗，还是说你最后还是会打开邮件以确保万无一失？

45:14-45:17 - Carmen: I still open it, and it summarizes efficiently. - 我还是会打开，它总结得很高效。

45:20-45:36 - Researcher: Got it—so it's accurate, but you still need to open it. The summary gives you emotional preparation more than it replaces reading the email. Besides Gmail summaries, are there any other free AI tools you're using regularly for work stuff? Even small things like browser extensions, writing assistants, anything like that? - 明白了——所以它很准，但你还是需要打开。摘要更多是给你心理准备，而不是取代阅读邮件。 除了 Gmail 摘要，还有其他你经常用于工作的免费 AI 工具吗？哪怕是像浏览器扩展程序、写作助手之类的小东西？

45:38-45:43 - Carmen: Does I don't wanna say her name because she'll hear. ALEXA count. - 我不想叫她的名字，因为她会听到。ALEXA 算吗？

45:45-45:52 - Researcher: Ha—yes, let's count the cylinder-shaped assistant! How are you using her for work? Like, what kinds of tasks or questions do you ask her? - 哈——算，让我们把这个圆柱形的助手算进去！ 你在工作中怎么用她？比如，你会问她哪类任务或问题？

46:03-46:31 - Carmen: It's not what you think. I usually have her put on some ambient sounds, because it helps me focus. That's when I'm like, okay. I'm in focus mode. I really need to write this grant. I need to work on my art because I also sell my art in galleries and so forth. I guess I haven't even talked to you all about the art stuff I do as well. Which I know is back to GPT. But sometimes I have an idea in my head, and I'm like, can you sketch this out for me? And then it helps me draw. But, yeah, I ask her main thing is just give me some ambient sounds to focus. - 并不是你想的那样。我通常让她放一些环境音（白噪音），因为那能帮我专注。那时候我会觉得，好了，我进入专注模式了。我真的得写这份申请，我得创作我的艺术作品，因为我也会在画廊之类的卖我的作品。我想我甚至还没跟你们谈过我做的那些艺术工作。我知道这又绕回到 GPT 上了。但有时我脑子里有个主意，我会问：“你能帮我把它勾勒出来吗？”然后它会帮我绘图。但，是的，我问她（Alexa）的主要事情就是帮我放点环境音来让我专注。

46:34-46:52 - Researcher: So the cylinder is your focus ritual—ambient sounds to signal "okay, work mode now" for grant writing or creating your gallery art. And then back in ChatGPT, you use image generation as a sketching partner to visualize ideas before you draw them yourself. Do you ever ask the cylinder actual questions, or is it really just the ambient sound function you use? - 所以那个“圆柱体”是你的专注仪式——通过环境音发出信号说“好了，现在是拨款写作或创作画廊艺术的工作模式”。然后回到 ChatGPT，你把它作为绘图伙伴来生成图像，在你自己动笔画之前先将想法视觉化。 你会问那个“圆柱体”实际的问题吗，还是说你真的只使用环境音功能？

46:55-47:01 - Carmen: I haven't. Something in my mind thinks she's dumb. But I haven't tested the theory. I just think it. - 没问过。我潜意识里总觉得她挺笨的。我没测试过这个理论，我只是这么觉得。

47:06-47:26 - Researcher: Fair—you've just assumed she's not smart enough for real questions, so you've never actually tried. She's the ambient sound machine, ChatGPT is the thinking partner. Alright, so for free AI tools you're actively using for work: Gemini email summaries, the cylinder for focus sounds, and we already covered Perplexity (which you stopped using). Does that cover the main ones, or is there anything else? - 明白——你就假设她不够聪明，不足以回答正式问题，所以你从没尝试过。她是环境音机器，ChatGPT 是思考伙伴。 好了，那么关于你目前积极用于工作的免费 AI 工具：Gemini 邮件摘要、提供专注音乐的“圆柱体”，以及我们之前聊过的 Perplexity（已停止使用）。这涵盖了主要的部分吗，还有别的吗？

47:29-47:36 - Carmen: I don't know if you count Siri for just telling her to calendar stuff for me or reminders, a lot of task reminders. Remind me on this day to do this or whatever. - 我不知道你算不算 Siri，我只是让她帮我记日历或者提醒，很多任务提醒。提醒我哪天要做这做那之类的。

47:40-47:50 - Researcher: Yeah, Siri for voice-based calendar and task reminders definitely counts—that's AI helping you stay organized for work. Do you use Siri for that stuff daily, or just occasionally when you think of it? - 是的，用 Siri 进行语音日历和任务提醒绝对算——那是 AI 在帮你保持工作条理性。 你每天都用 Siri 吗，还是只是偶尔想到时才用？

47:51-48:06 - Carmen: More like occasionally. Because sometimes it doesn't do it right. Like, it opens up the calendar to something kind of generic, but it can't as far as I know, like, put the website I need it to or notes or you know, it just feels very basic. - 更像是偶尔用用。因为有时它做得不对。比如，它打开的日历事项非常笼统，但它据我所知无法把所需的网址或笔记放进去，你知道的，它感觉非常基础。

48:10-48:33 - Researcher: So Siri is hit-or-miss—sometimes it works for quick reminders, but it can't handle the detail you actually need (like attaching a website or notes), so you only use it occasionally when it's simple enough. Let's focus on the free tools you actually use regularly: Gemini email summaries and Sora (which you tried but stopped). Starting with Gemini—have you ever considered paying for the full Gemini product, or has that never crossed your mind? - 所以 Siri 表现不稳定——有时它能很好地处理快速提醒，但无法处理你真正需要的细节（比如关联网站或笔记），所以你只在事情足够简单时偶尔使用它。 让我们专注于你实际经常使用的免费工具：Gemini 邮件摘要和 Sora（你试过但停了）。从 Gemini 开始——你有没有考虑过购买完整的 Gemini 产品，还是说这从未出现在你的脑海里？

48:44-48:45 - Carmen: I tried the free Gemini, like, talk one, and it didn't compare to the way GPT talks. And so no. - 我试过免费的 Gemini 语音对话版本，它没法和 GPT 对话的方式相比。所以，没考虑过。

48:48-49:00 - Researcher: So you tested the conversational Gemini, it didn't match ChatGPT's quality, and that killed any interest in paying for it. On a scale of 0-10, how willing would you be to pay for Gemini in the future? 0 being absolutely not, 10 being very willing. - 所以你测试了对话式的 Gemini，它没达到 ChatGPT 的水平，这消磨了任何购买它的兴趣。 在 0 到 10 的等级上，你未来为 Gemini 付费的意愿有多高？0 代表绝对不，10 代表非常愿意。

49:06-49:17 - Carmen: Two, only because I'm interested in how it works as an extension to the productivity tools like the docs or sheets or something like that, but not for conversation. - 给 2 分吧，纯粹是因为我好奇它作为生产力工具（如文档或表格之类）的扩展是如何运作的，而不是由于它的对话功能。

49:22-49:36 - Researcher: So a 2 out of 10—you'd only consider it if the Google Workspace integration (Docs, Sheets) proved really valuable, but never for the conversational side since ChatGPT owns that for you. What would Gemini need to do in Docs or Sheets to make you actually pull the trigger and pay for it? - 所以是 2 分——你只有在 Google Workspace 集成（文档、表格）证明非常有价值的情况下才会考虑，但绝不会为了对话而付费，因为 ChatGPT 已经替你实现了这一点。 Gemini 需要在文档或表格里做到什么，才能让你真正付诸行动为之付费？

49:42-50:10 - Carmen: I don't know. I know the thing that keeps stopping me is every time it said, do you wanna try it? For free? And I'm like, yes. And then it asked me to do an application or something. I don't know. It takes me down the path of doing things. It's just not easy. Just yes. Oh, I think I have to sign up to show something in order to qualify. So, no, it just feels like too many steps from a to b unless I pay and I can't pay until I've tried it. - 我不知道。我知道阻碍我的因素是，每次它说“想免费试试吗？”我说“好啊”，然后它让我填个申请表什么的。我不知道，它带我走入一条麻烦的路。它就是不够简便。我以为只要选“是”就行。噢，我想我必须注册去证明什么才能符合资格。所以，不，从 A 点到 B 点的步骤感觉太多了。除非付了钱后我能试用，但我没试过之前又不可能付钱。

50:14-50:37 - Researcher: Ah—so there's this weird friction where the "free trial" isn't actually free-and-easy, it requires some kind of application or qualification process, and you're not willing to jump through hoops just to test it. You need to try before you'd ever consider paying, but they won't let you try without effort. If the DocsSheets integration just worked automatically tomorrow with no signup, what would you hope it could do for you? Like what's the dream use case? - 啊——所以这里有一种奇怪的阻力，即“免费试用”其实并不是随点随用的，它需要某种申请或资格审查过程，而你不愿意为了测试一下就大费周章。你需要先试用才会考虑付费，但他们不让你轻松试用。 如果文档/表格的集成功能明天起自动生效，不需要任何注册，你希望它能为你做什么？比如，理想的使用场景是什么？

50:48-52:01 - Carmen: Well, actually, I um, you know how this is a user study. I did a user study about Gemini that works with Google and all those things, email, Docs, etcetera. And when I was doing that and I'd have to like, do think of this feature, this feature? And I was like, oh, it does all this? That's the only reason I even knew it existed because of a study. And I was like, that sounds cool. I mean, one of the things I definitely did not like that they showed me was that it emails automatically to people. I'm more warm or I'm more, like, personalized. So I wouldn't want somebody to contact me and they're like, thank you for contacting me. You know? Like, hey. Thank you. You know, I'm just gonna talk differently. So and then, yes, you can do your own voice, but it's no. I don't I don't want them to automatically do that. But I think there was something in the writing that I really enjoyed. But now that I have GPT, I don't know if I need it. But the one thing I would absolutely love for it to do is make like, this what do you call tables, cells, whatever in the sheets. Because I don't know even when I look at templates, I can't find what I need. If I could just describe it and, like, make that happen for me, what I needed to calculate, etcetera. I would love that. - 嗯，实际上，我，你知道这是一个用户研究。我参加了一个关于 Gemini 的用户研究，它能与 Google 的各项功能协作，比如电子邮件、文档等等。当时我在做那个研究，被要求去思考“这个功能怎么样？那个功能呢？”我当时就想，哦，它能做这么多？那次研究是我知道它存在的唯一原因。我觉得听起来很酷。我是说，他们展示给我的功能里，有一个我绝对不喜欢的，就是它会自动给别人发邮件。我更感性，或者说我更追求个性化。我不希望有人联系我时，收到的是类似“感谢您联系我”这种回复，你懂吗？比如，“嘿，谢谢你”，我会用不同的口气说话。所以，虽然你可以设置自己的语音或风格，但还是不行。我不希望它们自动执行。不过，我觉得它在写作方面的某些功能我真的很喜欢。但现在我已经有 GPT 了，我不知道是否还需要它。但有一件事我绝对希望它能做，就是制作表格、单元格之类的，在 Sheets（谷歌表格）里。因为我甚至在看模版时都找不到我需要的东西。如果我能直接描述它，然后让它帮我实现我想要的功能，比如我需要计算什么等等。我会非常喜欢那个。

52:04-52:31 - Researcher: Oh, this is gold—you participated in a Gemini user study, saw features that intrigued you (especially writing assistance), but the auto-email thing felt too impersonal for your style. And the killer feature for you would be Sheets automation: describe what you need (budget tracker, grant tracker, income calculator, whatever) and have it build the table, formulas, everything—because templates never match what you actually need. Have you tried asking ChatGPT to help you build Google Sheets formulas or structures, or does that not work well? - 噢，这太有价值了——你参加了 Gemini 的用户研究，看到了一些让你感兴趣的功能（尤其是写作辅助），但自动邮件功能对你的风格来说太没人情味了。 而对你来说，杀手级的功能会是表格（Sheets）自动化：描述你的需求（预算追踪、拨款追踪、收入计算器等），然后让它建立表格、公式和一切——因为模版永远无法完全匹配你的实际需求。 你尝试过让 ChatGPT 帮你建立 Google Sheets 的公式或结构吗，还是说效果并不好？

52:36-52:39 - Carmen: I have I don't remember the outcome, so it must have not been very useful. - 我试过，但我不记得结果了，所以那肯定不是很有用。

52:42-52:55 - Researcher: Ha—yeah, if you can't remember, it definitely didn't solve the problem. So if Gemini could actually nail that Sheets-building feature—you describe what you need, it creates the whole structure with formulas—what would you be willing to pay monthly for that? - 哈——是的，如果你都不记得了，那它肯定没解决问题。 所以，如果 Gemini 真的能搞定那个建立表格的功能——你描述需求，它创建包含公式的整个结构——你愿意为此每月支付多少钱？

53:03-53:17 - Carmen: Monthly, I don't have money to pay for that. Nothing. Not right now. Like, if I had steady income, maybe five or ten a month. Not even that because it's not like I use sheets on the daily. I just needed a onetime purchase or something. No. There's no way that I'd pay for that. - 每月的话，我没钱付那个。一分都不付。至少现在不行。如果我有稳定的收入，也许每月五块或十块。甚至不到那个数，因为我并不是每天都用 Sheets。我只需要一次性购买之类的。不，我绝不会为此付月费。

53:19-53:34 - Researcher: So monthly is a non-starter—you don't use Sheets often enough to justify a subscription. You'd want a one-time purchase or pay-per-use, something that matches your actual sporadic need for it. What's the most you'd pay as a one-time thing to have AI build you a custom Sheet whenever you needed one? - 所以月费是行不通的——你使用 Sheets 的频率不够高，不足以支撑订阅。你会想要一次性买断或按次付费，某种能匹配你偶尔使用需求的方式。 如果让 AI 随时为你构建自定义表格，作为一次性的费用，你最多愿意付多少钱？

53:35-53:49 - Carmen: I have to do it each time. God, that would suck. Wanna save five bucks, but then it feels like you lose them if you need to make tweaks. So this whole scenario doesn't even sound that ideal, to be honest. - 我每次都要付钱？天哪，那太糟了。想省五块钱，但如果你需要微调，感觉就像丢了这笔钱。所以说实话，这整个方案听起来并不那么理想。

53:54-54:12 - Researcher: Yeah, you're realizing the fantasy feature isn't actually worth the hassle—paying each time, losing the ability to tweak easily, it just doesn't fit how you actually work. Let's move to Sora. You tried the free version, made some art videos, but didn't pay when it went paid. Walk me through—did you ever seriously consider paying for Sora, or was it immediately a "no"? - 是的，你意识到这种幻想中的功能实际上不值得那么麻烦——每次付费、失去轻松微调的能力，这不符合你的实际工作方式。 让我们转向 Sora。你试过免费版，做了一些艺术视频，但在它开始收费后你没付钱。跟我讲讲——你是否认真考虑过为 Sora 付费，还是说立刻就决定不付？

54:21-54:44 - Carmen: Yeah. I did consider paying, and then I remember I didn't because folks had mixed reactions to it. Also, like, I really kinda wanted it to look more like me, and it was really hard to get it to look in well, you can make it sound like you because it uses your voice. But to look like me, then there was a feature where I couldn't exactly figure out how to use it to sound like me. - 是的。我确实考虑过付钱，然后我记得我没付，是因为人们对它的反应褒贬不一。而且，我也真的很希望视频里的人看起来更像我，但很难让它看起来……好吧，你可以让它听起来像你，因为它使用你的声音。但要看起来像我，当时有个功能我就是搞不清楚怎么用，不知道该怎么让它听起来像我。

54:46-55:08 - Researcher: So you did consider paying, but two things stopped you: 1. The audience backlash (younger folks criticizing AI content) 2. You wanted the videos to actually look and sound like you—use your voice, match your aesthetic—but couldn't figure out how to make that work with the features available. If Sora had nailed the "make it look and sound like me" part, would you have paid despite the audience pushback, or was the criticism too strong? - 所以你确实考虑过付钱，但有两件事阻碍了你： 1. 受众的反弹（年轻人批评 AI 内容） 2. 你希望视频能真正看起来和听起来都像你——使用你的声音，匹配你的审美——但无法通过现有功能实现。 如果 Sora 搞定了“让它看起来和听起来像我”这部分，尽管受众有抵触情绪，你还会付费吗？还是说那些批评对你影响太大？

55:11-55:40 - Carmen: It's no. It's not how do I say? I didn't understand how to use their features. I know you could make it look and sound like you, but I didn't know how. It's the literal how to. Because I saw other people use it and it looked and sounded just like them. When I tried, it was not working. I was like, ugh. I just don't wanna figure this out. So let me just and then I end up just changing it. Like, make it a soft British voice or something just so it sounds kinda magical. But yeah. - 不是的。不是怎么说……我当时不明白怎么使用他们的功能。我知道你可以让它看起来和听起来像你，但我不知道该怎么做。是具体的“如何操作”的问题。因为我看到别人用，看起来和听起来就像他们自己。但我尝试的时候就是不行。我就觉得，“额，我不想研究这个了”。所以我就放弃了，最后我就改了它。比如，把它改成一个温柔的英国口音什么的，就为了让它听起来有点奇幻感。但确实是这样。

55:42-56:04 - Researcher: Ah—so the feature existed, you saw others using it successfully, but you couldn't figure out how to make it work for yourself. The learning curve felt too steep, so you gave up and just picked a "soft British voice" as a workaround instead of your own voice. If the interface had been easier—like, dead simple to clone your voice and appearance—and the audience backlash wasn't a factor, what would you have been willing to pay monthly for Sora? - 啊——所以功能是存在的，你也看到别人成功使用了，但你自己搞不清楚怎么操作。学习曲线感觉太陡峭了，所以你放弃了，并用“温柔的英国口音”作为替代方案，而不是用你自己的声音。 如果界面更简单——比如，克隆你的声音和容貌变得极其简单——而且不考虑受众反弹的因素，你愿意每月为 Sora 支付多少钱？

56:09-56:10 - Carmen: Maybe fifteen a month. - 也许每月 15 块。

56:15-56:39 - Researcher: Okay, so $15month if Sora had been easier to use and you didn't have to worry about audience reaction. --- We're shifting gears now to talk more broadly about how you make decisions about paying for AI tools overall—not just one product, but what actually matters to you when you're deciding whether to open your wallet. When you're thinking about whether to pay for an AI tool—any AI tool—what are all the factors running through your head? Walk me through everything you consider. - 好的，如果 Sora 更易于使用且不用担心受众反应，每月 15 美元。 --- 我们现在换个话题，更广泛地聊聊你如何决定是否为 AI 工具付费——不仅是针对某一个产品，而是当你决定是否掏钱包时，哪些因素对你真正重要。 当你考虑是否为一个 AI 工具付费时——任何 AI 工具——你脑子里会考虑哪些因素？详细跟我说说你的考虑过程。

57:06-57:58 - Carmen: That last conversation reminded me that I considered for a while getting one that would I guess, it acts well, it translates. Like, you upload a video. Right? And it not closed captioning, but it says it in your in your voice. But a different language. And I was like, oh, that'd be an easy way to make multiple contents because, you know, I could be like, here's English version Spanish because content creation is a lot of work. But so, yeah, that is one is thinking, like, how much time does this save me? And it's not just a time thing. It's like this mental energy it takes to execute something. Yeah. Does it make my mind feel less angry? And then like, will this end up helping me down the line? Because the Sora you know, I was using them for shorts and shorts don't really bring in money when it comes for me on YouTube. But if somehow I got it to start making content videos, Oh, yeah. That could definitely help down the line because I do make money off those ones. So I'd have to think, like, am I gonna get my return? Is it gonna pay off literally? - 刚才的对话让我想起，我曾考虑过买一个工具，我想它大概是做翻译的。就是你上传一个视频，对吧？它不是做闭路字幕，而是用你的声音说出来，但是用另一种语言。我当时觉得，哦，那是制作多份内容的便捷方式，因为我可以同时拥有英文版和西班牙文版，毕竟内容创作是非常辛苦的工作。所以，这确实是一个因素，我在想：这能为我节省多少时间？而且不仅是时间问题，还有执行某件事所花费的心理能量。是的。它能让我的心情没那么烦躁吗？还有，这最终能长远地帮助我吗？因为像 Sora，我当时用它做 Shorts（短视频），但在 YouTube 上 Shorts 并不能为我带来收益。但如果我能设法让它开始制作正式的内容视频，哦，是的，那绝对会对长远有帮助，因为我能从那些视频里赚到钱。所以我必须要考虑：我能得到回报吗？它能在字面意义上带来收益吗？

58:00-58:29 - Researcher: This is really helpful. So you're weighing: 1. Time saved (but not just hours—it's about mental energy and emotional load) 2. Does it reduce frustrationanger? (Makes your mind feel less angry) 3. ROI potential (Will this pay off literally down the line?) And you gave a great example with that video translation tool—it could save content creation energy and potentially bring in money if it helped you make full videos instead of just shorts. Are there other factors beyond those three—timeenergy savings, emotional relief, and ROI—that you think about when deciding to pay? - 这非常有帮助。所以你权衡的是： 1. 节省的时间（不仅是小时数，还包括心理能量和情绪负担） 2. 它是否能减少挫败感/愤怒？（让你的心情不那么烦躁） 3. 投资回报率（ROI）潜力（它最终能在字面意义上带来收益吗？） 你举了一个关于视频翻译工具的好例子——它能节省内容创作的精力，如果能帮你制作完整的视频而不是仅有短视频，还有可能带来收入。 除了这三点——时间/精力节省、情绪缓解和投资回报率——在决定付费时，你还会考虑其他因素吗？

58:34-58:36 - Carmen: Not that I could think of. - 我想不出其他的了。

58:39-58:52 - Researcher: Okay, so those are your big three: timemental energy savings, emotional relief (does it make your mind feel less angry), and ROI potential. Now let's rank them. Of those three factors, which one is the most important when you're deciding whether to pay? - 好的，所以这是你的三大核心点：时间/心理能量节省、情绪缓解（是否能让心情不那么烦躁）以及投资回报率潜力。 现在让我们给它们排个序。在这三个因素中，你在决定是否付费时，哪一个是第一位的？

59:07-59:09 - Carmen: The most it's hard. And when I say my mind feel less angry, it's more like will this take away some frustration I feel around this task? And that's maybe the number one. - 最重要的……这很难说。当我说让我的心情不那么烦躁时，更多是指“这是否能消除我对这项任务感到的挫败感？”这也许是第一位的。

59:12-59:22 - Researcher: So reducing frustration around a task is number one—that emotionalmental relief piece is the biggest driver. Between the other two—timemental energy savings and ROI potential—which comes second? - 所以减少围绕某项任务的挫败感是第一位的——那种情绪/心理上的缓解是最主要的驱动力。 在另外两个因素中——时间/心理能量节省和投资回报率（ROI）潜力——哪一个排第二？

59:28-59:29 - Carmen: I guess ROI. - 我想是投资回报率。

59:32-59:47 - Researcher: So your ranking is: 1. Reduces frustration around a task 2. ROI potential (will it pay off literally) 3. Timemental energy savings That's interesting—time savings is actually last, even though it often connects to the frustration piece. Help me understand: why does ROI beat out time savings for you? - 所以你的排序是： 1. 减少围绕任务的挫败感 2. 投资回报率潜力（是否会带来实际收益） 3. 时间/心理能量节省 这很有趣——节省时间实际上排在最后，尽管它通常与挫败感有关。 帮我理解一下：为什么对你来说投资回报率胜过了节省时间？

59:55-01:00:07 - Carmen: Because I'm essentially quote, unquote, unemployed. Yes. I get contracts here and there, but, like, time is something I have. So it's not like it's something I don't have. So it has to be more on that frustration piece. Because, like, I I have all day. - 因为我基本上处于，引申一下说，“失业”状态。是的，我偶尔能接到一些合同，但是，时间是我拥有的东西。所以时间并不是我稀缺的东西。它必须更多地集中在解决挫败感上。因为，我整天都有时间。

01:00:09-01:00:31 - Researcher: That makes total sense—you're not time-poor, you're income-poor. You have hours available, so saving time isn't the win. The win is either making money (ROI) or removing the emotional block that keeps you from doing something at all (frustration relief). When you think about that frustration relief piece—can you give me an example of a task where the frustration was so high that paying for AI to handle it felt worth it? - 这完全说得通——你不是缺少时间，而是缺少收入。你有大把的时间，所以节省时间并不是关键的胜利。关键的胜利要么是赚钱（ROI），要么是移除让你无法开始做某事的情绪障碍（缓解挫败感）。 当你想到缓解挫败感这一点时——你能给我举个例子吗？在什么任务中，挫败感如此之高，以至于付费让 AI 处理它让你觉得很值？

01:00:48-01:01:20 - Carmen: Yeah. The grants. Here's a concrete example is in January, I'm looking at my you know, just last month, looking at my finances and, like, I need to cut back. I I'm so this is really hard right now. Like, I'm really in a hard spot. And so GPT has to go as much as I've loved it for the last year. It has to go. And I probably only lasted two, maybe three days and seen the biggest frustration is like, oh, you give me low quality. Very low quality when when it's the free version. I can't stand this, and I can't do my grant writing. Or my emotional processing with this level of whatever this is. - 有的。申请拨款。这里有一个具体的例子，今年一月，我在看我的……你知道，就在上个月，看我的财务状况，我想，我得削减开支，我现在太……我现在真的处境艰难。所以我必须取消 GPT 订阅，尽管在过去一年里我很喜欢它。它必须得取消了。但我大概只坚持了两天，也许三天，就发现了最大的挫败感，就是“噢，你给我的是低质量的东西”。免费版的质量非常非常低。我受不了这个，我没法写我的拨款申请书。我也没法在这种水平的内容下进行我的情绪处理，无论这免费版是什么水平。

01:01:25-01:01:49 - Researcher: Wow—so you literally tried to cut ChatGPT in January because money was that tight, but the frustration of the downgraded free version (lower quality outputs, can't do grant writing or emotional processing properly) was so unbearable that you re-subscribed within 2-3 days. In that moment when you decided to pay again, was it more about "I can't write grants without this" (the ROI piece) or "I can't stand this low-quality experience" (the frustration piece)? - 哇——所以你在今年一月确实因为资金紧张尝试过停掉 ChatGPT，但由于降级后的免费版所带来的挫败感（输出质量降低，无法正常辅助拨款写作或情绪处理）太难以忍受，你在 2-3 天内就重新订阅了。 在那个你决定再次付费的时刻，更多是因为“没有它我写不了拨款申请”（投资回报率部分），还是“我受不了这种低质量的体验”（挫败感部分）？

01:01:54-01:01:55 - Carmen: Oh, definitely the low quality piece. And it seems on Reddit, others are in the same boat. - 哦，绝对是低质量那部分。而且在 Reddit 上看来，其他人也处于同样的处境。

01:01:58-01:02:15 - Researcher: So even though grants bring in actual money (ROI), the emotional driver—"I can't stand this low-quality experience"—is what actually pushed you to pay again. The frustration was intolerable. You mentioned you see this on Reddit too. Is Reddit one of your main channels for discovering new AI tools, or hearing about updates to existing ones? - 所以尽管拨款能带来实际的钱（ROI），但情绪驱动力——“我受不了这种低质量的体验”——才是真正促使你再次付费的原因。那种挫败感让人无法忍受。 你提到你在 Reddit 上也看到了这一点。Reddit 是你发现新 AI 工具或了解现有工具更新的主要频道之一吗？

01:02:20-01:02:25 - Carmen: No. I don't. I only use it for for AI wise, it's only, um, a ChatGPT thread that I'm subscribed to. - 不。不是的。关于 AI 方面，我只订阅了一个 ChatGPT 的讨论帖。

01:02:29-01:02:43 - Researcher: Got it—so Reddit isn't where you discover new AI tools, you just follow the ChatGPT subreddit to troubleshoot or see what others are experiencing. So where do you typically first hear about new AI products? How did you find out about Perplexity, Sora, LedgerTax, all these tools? - 明白了——所以 Reddit 不是你发现新 AI 工具的地方，你只是关注 ChatGPT 的板块来解决故障或看看其他人在经历什么。 那么你通常最初是从哪里听说新的 AI 产品的？你是怎么发现 Perplexity、Sora、LedgerTax 以及所有这些工具的？

01:02:58-01:03:46 - Carmen: Perplexity was because Verizon offered it for free. Sora, because I saw people using it on YouTube, I said, what is that? And they told me I was like, does it cost? And I said, no. And so that and then LedgerTax because I was telling ChatGPT, like, I need someone who understands content creation And I might have to just pay because I whatever. And then I tried Copilot at first because they're made for social media folks. And it was too expensive. And then I just asked ChatGPT, please find me something that would answer. And then I found LedgerTax, and I was like, hold on. An actual AI, I prefer AI over a human to talk about my taxes. Just yeah. And so that you know, I guess AI helps me find AI. And other than that, I guess it's just maybe I'll see a TikTok or maybe someone talked about it, but I don't go actively search for it. - Perplexity 是因为 Verizon 免费赠送。Sora 是因为我看到人们在 YouTube 上使用它，我问“那是什么？”，他们告诉了我，然后我问“要钱吗？”，他们说“不要”。就这样。然后 LedgerTax 是因为我当时在跟 ChatGPT 说，比如“我需要一个理解内容创作的人”，我可能直接付钱买了，因为我……管它呢。然后我起初尝试了 Copilot，因为它是为社交媒体人士设计的。但它太贵了。然后我就问 ChatGPT，“请帮我找个能回答我问题的工具”。接着我找到了 LedgerTax，我想，等等。一个真正的 AI，比起人类，我更倾向于跟 AI 讨论我的税务问题。就是这样。所以，我想是 AI 帮我找到了 AI。除此之外，我想可能就是刷到 TikTok 或者有人提到了它，但我不会主动去搜索。

01:03:51-01:04:15 - Researcher: So your discovery channels are: - Promotionsfreebies (Verizon offering Perplexity) - YouTube (seeing creators use tools like Sora) - ChatGPT itself (asking it to find tools like LedgerTax) - Occasionally TikTok or word-of-mouth But you're not actively hunting for new AI tools—they come to you through those channels. When you do stumble across a new AI tool—whether on TikTok, YouTube, wherever—what makes you actually stop and think "I should try this" versus just scrolling past? - 所以你的发现渠道是： - 促销/赠品（Verizon 提供 Perplexity） - YouTube（看到创作者使用 Sora 等工具） - ChatGPT 本身（让它寻找像 LedgerTax 这样的工具） - 偶尔是通过 TikTok 或口碑传播 但你并没有在主动搜寻新的 AI 工具——它们是通过这些渠道主动找上你的。 当你偶然发现一个新的 AI 工具时——无论是在 TikTok、YouTube 还是其他地方——是什么让你真正停下来并思考“我应该试一下这个”，而不是直接刷过去？

01:04:18-01:04:25 - Carmen: I'm trying to think if there's an example of a time someone said something like that, and I really can't think of one, to be honest. - 我在想是否有一个类似的例子可以说明，说实话，我真的想不出有哪次是这样的。

01:04:28-01:04:53 - Researcher: So it's pretty rare that you see something and immediately think "I need to try this." Most of your AI tools came from either free promotions, direct need (asking ChatGPT to solve a problem), or seeing it solve a specific creative problem (like Sora for art videos). Let's talk budget. Earlier you mentioned trying to cut ChatGPT in January because money was tight. Do you have a mental budget for AI spending overall—like "I can spend X amount per month on AI tools total"—or is it more case-by-case? - 所以，你很少在看到什么东西后立即心想“我得试试这个”。你大部分的 AI 工具要么来自免费促销，要么来自直接的需求（要求 ChatGPT 解决问题），要么是看到它解决了一个特定的创意问题（比如用 Sora 做艺术视频）。 我们来谈谈预算。刚才你提到由于资金紧张，在一月份曾尝试取消 ChatGPT。你对整体的 AI 支出有一个心理预算吗——比如“我每月在 AI 工具上的总花费是 X 元”——还是更多的按具体情况而定？

01:04:55-01:05:15 - Carmen: No. That sounds really silly, to be honest. I mean, I get some people would do that, but who budgets like that? Oh, AI this much. I just I would just say, like, professional development, I have this much or whatever. But at this point of time, it's like, get as close to zero as possible and I will justify ChatGPT, and that's it. - 没有。说实话，那听起来挺傻的。我是说，我理解有些人会那样做，但谁会那样做预算？“噢，给 AI 留这么多钱”。我只会说，比如“职业发展方面我有这么多预算”之类的。但目前的情况是，目标是尽可能接近于零，而我会证明 ChatGPT 这份支出的合理性，仅此而已。

01:05:17-01:05:39 - Researcher: That makes sense—you don't have a separate "AI budget," it would just fall under professional development or business expenses. And right now, with money tight, the goal is to spend as close to zero as possible, with ChatGPT being the one exception you'll justify. If money weren't tight—like if you were back in a $5,000month period—what do you think is the most you'd be comfortable spending total per month on all AI tools combined? - 这很合理——你没有一个单独的“AI 预算”，它只会归入职业发展或商业开支。而现在，随着资金紧张，目标是花费尽可能接近零，而 ChatGPT 是你唯一愿意保留并证明其合理性的例外。 如果资金不紧张——比如你回到了每月收入 5000 美元的时期——你认为你每月在所有 AI 工具上的总支出最多能接受多少？

01:05:58-01:06:37 - Carmen: Oh, dang. That would be nice. Five thousand a month. There is one tool, and I now that you say that I've never looked into, but it would solve so many issues for me, is if I could talk to it the way I talk to ChatGPT and say, here no. No. Maybe not even the talk to it. But like, upload the clips I recorded and be like, make a content out of this, not a reel, not a short, but actually make this into content. And then also if I want to tell it, like, okay. Put a banner transition here where I'm talking to it to tell it, to make a video, like, content instead of me having to be the one physically to edit a video, I would be willing to pay for that. Then I think I would probably cap myself at a hundred a month for AI related stuff. - 噢，天哪。那会很棒。月入五千。有一个工具，既然你提到了，我还没研究过它，但它能帮我解决很多问题，那就是如果我能像跟 ChatGPT 说话那样跟它交流，然后说……不，不。也许甚至不需要说话。就是上传我录制的片段，然后说“把这个做成一份内容，不是那种 Reel，不是 Short，而是真正做成一份内容”。然后如果我想告诉它，比如“好，在这里加一个横幅转场”，通过对话告诉它做一个视频，做成成片，而不是由我亲自去剪辑——我愿意为此付钱。那样的话，我想我可能会把 AI 相关的消费上限设在每月一百块。

01:06:40-01:07:01 - Researcher: Wow—so if you had steady income ($5kmonth), you'd be willing to spend up to $100month total on AI tools. And you just described a dream tool: an AI video editor where you upload raw clips and talk to it conversationally to create full YouTube content, not just shorts. That $100month cap—is that because it feels like a reasonable percentage of income at that level, or is there another reason that's your ceiling? - 哇——所以如果你有稳定收入（每月 5000 美元），你愿意每月在 AI 工具上花费最多 100 美元。你刚才描述了一个梦想工具：一个 AI 视频编辑器，你可以上传原始素材，通过对话沟通来制作完整的 YouTube 内容，而不仅仅是短视频。 那个每月 100 美元的上限——是因为在那个收入水平下，这看起来是一个合理的收入占比，还是有其他原因导致这是你的天花板？

01:07:05-01:07:06 - Carmen: The first one. - 第一个原因。

01:07:14-01:07:28 - Researcher: Got it—it's a proportional thing based on income level. Right now you're paying $30month for ChatGPT. If your income stays where it is now (the tighter months), what's the absolute maximum you could justify spending total on AI per month before it feels irresponsible? - 明白了——这是一个基于收入水平的比例问题。 目前你每月为 ChatGPT 支付 30 美元。如果你的收入维持现状（更拮据的时期），在感到这种消费不负责任之前，你每月能为 AI 支付的总金额上限是多少？

01:07:33-01:07:38 - Carmen: Just where I'm at right now. Maybe I can go up to fifty dollars a month. - 就在我现在这个水平。也许我可以增加到每月五十美元。

01:07:41-01:08:16 - Researcher: So at your current income level, you could stretch to $50month maximum for all AI tools, but right now you're sticking with just the $30 for ChatGPT because it's the only one that's truly essential—it passed the "tried to quit and couldn't last 3 days" test. --- That's really helpful context on how you think about these decisions. We've covered a lot of ground today—from your work as a therapeutic arts facilitator, to how you're using AI for grants, emotional processing, creative work, and how you decide what's worth paying for. Thank you so much for sharing all of this with me. Is there anything else about your experience with AI tools that you think would be useful for us to know? - 所以在目前的收入水平下，你对所有 AI 工具的最高承受能力是每月 50 美元，但现在你只坚持支付 30 美元的 ChatGPT 订阅，因为它是唯一真正必不可少的——它通过了那次“尝试戒掉却没能坚持过 3 天”的测试。 --- 关于你如何做出这些决定，这些背景非常有帮助。我们今天聊了很多内容——从你作为治疗艺术引导者的工作，到你如何使用 AI 进行拨款申请、情绪处理、创意工作，以及你如何判定什么值得付费。 非常感谢你与我分享这一切。关于你使用 AI 工具的经历，还有什么你觉得对我们有用的信息吗？

01:08:17-01:08:32 - Carmen: The other way I use AI tools and I don't know. It's not even AI tools. AI images is I will go to Pinterest, and there's AI images people have made. And I will print them and use them in my art as collage. - 我使用 AI 工具的另一种方式……我不知道。甚至都不算 AI 工具。是 AI 图片——我会去 Pinterest，那里有人们做的 AI 图片。我会把它们打印出来，在我的艺术创作中用作拼贴素材。

01:08:35-01:09:04 - Researcher: Oh, that's fascinating—you're using AI-generated images from Pinterest as collage materials in your physical art facilitation work. So AI is feeding into your in-person sessions in a very tangible, analog way. That's such a creative loop. Thank you for sharing that! This has been an incredibly rich conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time to walk me through all of this—your work, your creative process, how you're navigating income uncertainty, and how AI tools fit into all of it. Your insights are going to be really valuable. Thank you so much for your time today! - 噢，那太迷人了——你把 Pinterest 上 AI 生成的图片作为拼贴材料，用于你实体的艺术引导工作。所以 AI 以一种非常实际、模拟（analog）的方式融入了你的线下活动。 这是一个多么有创意的循环。谢谢你的分享！ 这是一次非常丰富的对话。我真的很感谢你花时间向我介绍这些——你的工作、你的创作过程、你如何应对收入的不确定性，以及 AI 工具如何完美融入其中。你的见解将会非常有价值。 非常感谢你今天的时间！

01:09:06-01:09:07 - Carmen: You're welcome. - 不客气。

01:09:09-01:09:13 - Researcher: Take care, and best of luck with your grant writing and your art sessions! - 保重，祝你的拨款写作和艺术课程一切顺利！