00:02-00:21 - Researcher: Hey there! I'm Trooly, and I'm really excited to chat with you today. This conversation will take about 60 minutes. Before we dive into the main topic, could you please give me a brief self-introduction? I'd love to get to know you a bit better. For example, you could tell me your age, occupation, and hobbies — or anything else you think would help me understand you better. - 嘿，你好！我是 Trooly，很高兴今天能和你聊天。 这次交流大约需要60分钟。在我们深入探讨主旨之前，你能先做一个简短的自我介绍吗？我很想多了解你一点。例如，你可以告诉我你的年龄、职业和爱好——或者任何你认为能帮助我更好了解你的信息。

00:28-00:43 - Clara: Hi. My name is Clara. I'm the the lead the team lead for design and coding for a hospitality marketing agency. I work from home. They are based out of Georgia, and I live in Central Maryland. - 嗨。我叫 Clara。我是一家酒店营销代理机构的设计与编码团队负责人。我在家工作。公司总部在乔治亚州，我住在马里兰州中部。

00:45-00:59 - Researcher: Nice to meet you, Clara! A remote team lead role sounds interesting, especially across states like that. So you're leading both design and coding - that's quite a combination! How big is your team, and what does a typical workday look like for you juggling those two areas? - 很高兴认识你，Clara！远程团队负责人的角色听起来很有趣，尤其是像这样跨州的合作。 所以你要同时领导设计和编码——这真是一个不小的组合！你的团队规模有多大？在平衡这两个领域时，你典型的工作日是怎样的？

00:59-01:06 - Clara: There's just there's just two of us. My team is just it's a small team. It's a small company. Company. - 实际上只有两个人。我的团队很小，公司规模也不大。

01:08-01:18 - Researcher: Got it, so it's pretty lean - just the two of you handling design and coding for the whole agency. What kind of design and coding work do you typically do for hospitality marketing? Like, - 明白了，所以团队非常精简——只有你们两个人负责整个代理机构的设计和编码工作。 你们在酒店营销方面通常会做哪种设计和编码工作？比如……

01:18-01:24 - Clara: Mainly, mainly website design. Some email marketing, - 主要是网站设计。也做一些邮件营销。

01:26-01:35 - Researcher: Websites and email marketing - makes sense for hospitality. When you say website design, are you building sites for individual hospitality managers, or for resorts themselves, or something else? - 网站和邮件营销——对酒店业来说非常合理。 你说的网站设计，是为个人酒店经理建立网站，还是为度假村本身，或者其他的？

01:36-01:41 - Clara: All of the above. Hotel groups, boutique locations, resorts, - 以上都有。酒店集团、精品酒店、度假村等等。

01:42-01:57 - Researcher: That's a lot of variety! So you're constantly switching contexts between different types of clients. Walk me through what a typical workday looks like for you - like, when do you start, what are you usually working on, how do you split your time between the design side and the coding side? - 种类真丰富！所以你需要不断在不同类型的客户背景之间切换。 带我了解一下你典型的工作日吧——比如，你什么时候开始工作，通常在忙什么，你在设计端和编码端之间如何分配时间？

02:08-02:44 - Clara: I actually don't do the coding. I delegate that to my team member. So I'm the design person. So I deal with our account coordinators. They give I get on maybe I'll get on a design call with the client, listen to what they're looking for. Design their website homepage based on that. Then we have a platform that kind of applies that style to a set of interior pages. Some of them can be custom. Some of them aren't. We also do social media posts, email marketing. A lot of print work, postcards for different listings. Different social media ads, things like that. - 实际上我不做编码。我会把那部分交给我的团队成员。我是负责设计的那个人。所以我负责接洽我们的客户协调员。我会和客户进行设计会议，听取他们的需求，并以此设计网站主页。然后我们有一个平台，可以将这种风格应用到一系列内页中。其中有些是定制的，有些不是。我们还做社交媒体贴文、邮件营销、大量的平面设计工作、不同房源的明信片、各类社交媒体广告之类的。

02:46-02:52 - Researcher: Ah, so you're really the design lead and your team member handles the - 啊，所以你实际上是设计主管，而你的团队成员负责……

02:52-02:52 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

02:54-03:11 - Researcher: Got it! So you're juggling a lot - client calls, homepage designs, social media posts, print materials. You mentioned you work from home in Central Maryland. If you don't mind me asking, what's your living situation like? Do you live alone, with family, roommates? - 明白了！所以你身兼数职——客户会议、主页设计、社交媒体贴文、印刷材料。 你提到你在马里兰州中部居家办公。如果不介意我问的话，你的生活状况是怎样的？是独居，还是和家人、室友一起？

03:15-03:23 - Clara: My mother just moved in with me. So it's just us. - 我母亲刚刚搬来和我一起住。所以只有我们两个人。

03:23-03:31 - Researcher: I see. How's that transition been, having your mom move in while you're working from home all day? - 我明白了。你全天在家办公，母亲搬进来后这种过渡期感觉如何？

03:32-03:40 - Clara: Oh, it's fine. There's really no issue with that. I have my own office space. - 哦，挺好的。没觉得有什么问题，我有自己独立的办公室空间。

03:42-03:46 - Researcher: That's good you have dedicated space. How long have you been in this role with the agency? - 拥有专属空间很好。你在代理机构担任这个职位多久了？

03:49-03:56 - Clara: I started as the designer, and then I got promoted to lead, uh, three years ago. - 我刚开始是设计师，然后在三年前被提升为负责人。

03:58-04:04 - Researcher: Nice! So you've been with the company even longer than three years then. What led to you getting - 太棒了！那你进公司的时间肯定超过三年了。 是什么导致你被……

04:04-04:05 - Clara: Yes. Five years. - 是的，已经五年了。

04:06-04:12 - Researcher: What led to you getting into hospitality marketing specifically? Was that intentional or did you kind of fall into it? - 是什么契机让你进入了专门的酒店营销领域？是有意为之，还是误打误撞？

04:24-04:33 - Clara: I kinda fell into it. I was just doing design, uh, all kinds of digital design and print design, and, um, my previous job was for a hotel management group. So it just kind of was a transition to go to a hospitality marketing agency. - 算是误打误撞。我当时在做各种数字设计和平面设计，我上一份工作是在一家酒店管理集团。所以跳槽到一家酒店营销代理机构算是一种顺理成章的过渡。

04:34-04:43 - Researcher: That makes sense - you already knew the hospitality world from the inside. Outside of work, what do you like to do? Any hobbies or interests that take up your time? - 原来如此——你已经从内部了解酒店行业了。 工作之余，你喜欢做什么？有什么爱好或兴趣占据了你的时间吗？

04:46-05:00 - Clara: Film, I love film. I love art. I I I love cooking. Kind of a foodie. I love my dog. We go on lots of walks. - 电影，我热爱电影。我喜欢艺术。我也热爱烹饪，算是个吃货。我爱我的狗，我们经常去散步。

05:02-05:03 - Researcher: What kind of dog do you have? - 你养的是什么狗？

05:05-05:07 - Clara: I have a Shih Tzu mix. - 我有一只西施混血。

05:09-05:11 - Researcher: Oh nice! Shih Tzus are sweet. What's the mix with? - 哦，不错！西施犬很贴心。它混的是什么品种？

05:14-05:15 - Clara: Terrier. - 梗犬。

05:16-05:22 - Researcher: A little fluffy companion! Do you get to take walks during the workday, or is that more of an evening thing? - 一个毛茸茸的小伴侣！你会在工作时间去散步吗，还是通常在晚上？

05:22-05:30 - Clara: No. I do it during the workday. I do it before work. We do a walk in the middle of the day and then after work. - 不，我在工作时间内也会。工作前走一趟。中午走一趟，下班后再走一趟。

05:31-05:38 - Researcher: That's a nice rhythm to break up the day. If you don't mind me asking, what's your age range? Just helps me get a fuller picture. - 这种节奏能很好地缓解一天的劳累。 如果不介意我问一下，你的年龄段是多少？这能帮我获得更完整的情况。

05:39-05:41 - Clara: I just turned forty seven. - 我刚满 47 岁。

05:43-05:57 - Researcher: Thanks for sharing! Now, you mentioned your income comes from this team lead role. If you're comfortable sharing, what's the ballpark range of your monthly income from the agency? And do you have any other income sources besides your salary? Totally fine if you'd rather not say. - 谢谢分享！现在，你提到了你的收入来自这个团队负责人职位。如果你愿意分享的话，你从代理机构获得的月收入大概范围是多少？除了工资，你还有其他收入来源吗？如果你不想说也没关系。

06:05-06:06 - Clara: I'd rather not say. - 我还是不说这个了。

06:08-06:18 - Researcher: No problem at all, I totally understand! Do you run any personal social media accounts or maybe a side project - like anything related to film, cooking, design - or is it mostly just personal use? - 没关系，完全理解！ 你有运营任何个人社交媒体账号或者副业项目吗？比如与电影、烹饪或设计相关的，或者大多数只是个人使用？

06:26-06:36 - Clara: Mostly just personal use, but I'd like to get into that. My salary isn't covering all my bills, so I would love to find another way to make more income. - 大多数只是个人使用，但我很想参与进去。我的工资没法覆盖我所有的账单，所以我很想找另一种方式赚更多钱。

06:37-06:55 - Researcher: That's a real and honest answer - appreciate you sharing that. So there's some financial pressure right now, and you're thinking about side income possibilities. When you say you'd like to get into social media or a side project, what ideas have you been considering? Like, would it be design-related, or more around your interests like film or cooking? - 这是一个非常真实和诚实的回答——感谢你的分享。所以目前有一些经济压力，你正在考虑赚取副业收入的可能性。 当你说想尝试社交媒体或副业项目时，你考虑过哪些想法？它是会和设计相关的，还是偏向你的兴趣爱好，比如电影或烹饪？

06:56-07:05 - Clara: Not social media. What I'd like to maybe opening an Etsy store, uh, selling design templates, something like that. - 不是社交媒体。我考虑的是也许开一个 Etsy 店铺，销售设计模版之类的。

07:07-07:08 - Researcher: Etsy store with - 开 Etsy 店铺和……

07:08-07:10 - Clara: User studies like this. That that's something. - 像这种用户研究，也是一种途径。

07:12-07:22 - Researcher: Ah, so user studies like this one help a bit too. The Etsy idea is interesting - selling design templates makes sense given your skills. What's held you back from starting that so far? - 啊，所以像这样的用户研究也能帮到一点忙。 Etsy 的主意很有趣——考虑到你的技能，销售设计模版非常有道理。到目前为止是什么阻碍了你开始呢？

07:32-07:47 - Clara: I actually did start working on the templates. I just haven't opened the store yet. I'm just doing my research, uh, trying to put together packages. There seems to be a lot of competition, so I wanna make sure that I have enough before I open the store. It seems people are wanting to buy complete packages with everything in it, all in one. - 实际上我已经开始制作模版了。只是还没开店。我还在做调研，试图整理出一整套包裹。看起来竞争非常激烈，所以我想确保在开店前已经准备了足够的内容。似乎人们更倾向于购买包含所有内容、全方位的一体化完整包。

07:49-08:03 - Researcher: Smart - you're doing your homework before launching. So you've noticed people want bundled packages, not just individual templates. What kind of templates are you creating? Like, are they related to hospitality marketing since that's your expertise, or something different? - 聪明——你在发布前做足了功课。所以你发现人们想要捆绑包，而不仅是单个模版。 你在制作哪种模版？考虑到你的专长，它们是和酒店营销相关的，还是别的？

08:05-08:28 - Clara: Yeah. Yes. Hospitality marketing. I wanna put together different social media packages, grand opening. Now open, fully booked. Maybe some website design, landing page, email marketing templates, postcards, venue presentations. I wanna create a full package of everything a manager would need and then try to sell them. - 是的。酒店营销。我想整理出不同的社交媒体包，像开业典礼、现已开放、预约全满这种。也许还有一些网站设计、落地页、邮件营销模版、明信片、场馆演示文稿。我想创建一个酒店经理可能需要的所有内容的完整包，然后试着卖给他们。

08:30-08:48 - Researcher: That's actually really strategic - you're essentially packaging up all the expertise you've built over five years into something managers can buy off the shelf. Have you tested any of this with actual managers yet, or are you still in the creation phase? Like, do you know if they'd actually pay for this kind of package versus hiring someone like your agency? - 这实际上非常有策略性——你本质上是将你五年多积累的专业知识打包成酒店经理可以买来即用的产品。 你已经在真实的酒店经理身上测试过这些了吗？还是仍处于创作阶段？比如，你是否知道他们是否真的愿意为此类包付费，而不是直接雇佣像你们公司这样的代理商？

08:53-09:14 - Clara: No. I I haven't actually tested this yet. But I've talked to enough hospitality managers to know that there are some people who just are getting started, and they don't know what to do. And they can't afford our agency. Uh, so they'd like to just kinda buy an all in one template that they can adjust on their own. That'll save them quite a bit of money. - 不，我还没实际测试过。但我接触过足够多的酒店经理，我知道有些人刚刚起步，且不知道该做什么。他们负担不起我们代理机构的费用，所以他们想购买那种可以自行调整的一体化模版。这能帮他们省不少钱。

09:17-09:33 - Researcher: That's a really good insight - you're targeting the managers who can't afford full agency services but still need professional-looking materials. Okay, shifting gears now - let's talk about AI! In your daily life and work, what AI apps or web tools do you use most often? Just walk me through what you're actually using. - 这是一个非常好的洞察——你的目标受众是那些负担不起全套代理服务，但仍然需要专业外观材料的经理们。 好的，现在我们换个话题——聊聊 AI 吧！ 在你的日常生活和工作中，你最常使用哪些 AI 应用或网页工具？带我了解一下你实际使用的内容。

09:43-10:08 - Clara: I use Gemini, ChatGPT, pretty much daily. I kinda switch between the two depending on the answer I get from one. I'll see what the other one has to offer. I also use an AI tool called Reloom, um, for some website design ideas for kinda like wireframes. I also use generative AI in Photoshop. They have AI kinda built in now to these Adobe tools. And I use some of the AI tools that are built into Figma. - 我几乎每天都用 Gemini、ChatGPT。我会在两者之间切换，取决于从中得到什么样的答案，看看另一个能提供什么。我还用一个叫 Relume 的 AI 工具，用来获取一些网站设计想法，有点像线框图。我还用 Photoshop 里的生成式 AI，现在这些 Adobe 工具里都内置了 AI。我还会用 Figma 里内置的一些 AI 工具。

10:11-10:25 - Researcher: So you're using AI across a bunch of different parts of your workflow - chatbots for ideas, Reloom for wireframes, and then the AI features baked into your design tools. Between Gemini and ChatGPT, what kinds of things are you typically asking them? Like, what are you using them for in your work? - 所以你在工作流程的许多不同部分都使用了 AI——用聊天机器人获取灵感，用 Relume 做线框图，然后使用设计工具中自带的 AI 功能。 在 Gemini 和 ChatGPT 之间，你通常会问它们什么样的问题？或者说，你在工作中怎么使用它们？

10:28-10:46 - Clara: Do you know what? I left one out too that I actually use a lot. It's called Gamma. I use that for, um, some presentations and just to make, like, a quick PDF that I might wanna upload to the website, like, a seller checklist or something like that, that's that's another tool. Sorry. I forgot to mention that before. - 你知道吗？我漏掉了一个我实际上用的很多的。它叫 Gamma。我用它来做一些演示文稿，以及快速制作一些我想上传到网站的 PDF，比如卖家核对清单之类的。那是另一个工具。抱歉，我刚才忘了提它。

10:48-11:01 - Researcher: No worries! So Gamma for presentations and PDFs. That's helpful to know. Now, the important question - which of these AI tools are you actually paying for? Can you tell me specifically which ones you have paid subscriptions for, and how much each one costs? - 没关系！所以用 Gamma 做演示文稿和 PDF。这很有参考价值。 现在，重要的问题来了——这些 AI 工具中，你实际上在为哪些付费？你能具体告诉我哪些是你个人付费订阅的，每个月大概多少钱吗？

11:15-11:30 - Clara: Yeah. So the professional version of ChatGPT I'm not sure the cost on that. Our company pays for it. Trying to see if I can find that out. But, yeah, I also do use Relume. I pay eighteen dollars a month for that one. - 好的。专业版的 ChatGPT，我不确定它的价格，因为是我们公司付的钱，我看能不能查到。不过，我确实在使用 Relume，我每个月自己付 18 美元。

11:32-11:43 - Researcher: Okay, so ChatGPT Pro is covered by your company, and you personally pay $18month for Relume. What about the others - Gemini, Gamma, and the AI features in Adobe and Figma? Are any of those paid, or are you using free versions? - 好的，所以 ChatGPT Pro 是由公司承担的，而你个人每月支付 18 美元使用 Relume。 剩下的呢——Gemini, Gamma 还有 Adobe 和 Figma 里的 AI 功能？有付费的吗，还是你在用免费版？

11:46-11:50 - Clara: Oh, those are all actually paid for by the company also. - 哦，那些其实也都是公司付钱的。

11:53-12:07 - Researcher: Got it. So your company pays for ChatGPT, Gemini, Gamma, Adobe, and Figma - and the only one you're paying for out of your own pocket is Relume at $18month. Do you know what tier of ChatGPT your company pays for? Like is it ChatGPT Plus, or the Pro version, or something else? - 明白了。所以公司支付了 ChatGPT、Gemini、Gamma、Adobe 和 Figma 的费用——而你唯一自掏腰包支付的是每月 18 美元的 Relume。 你知道你公司支付的是哪种等级的 ChatGPT 吗？是 ChatGPT Plus，还是专业版 (Pro)，或者其他的？

12:13-12:16 - Clara: It says ChatGPT five point two - 上面写着 ChatGPT 5.2。

12:21-12:24 - Researcher: Okay, so it's the latest version. Do you happen to - 好的，所以是最新版本。你恰好……

12:24-12:24 - Clara: yeah, latest version. - 是的，最新版本。

12:26-12:32 - Researcher: Do you know if that's the ChatGPT Plus plan at $20month or the Pro plan at $200month? Just trying to understand what tier your - 你是否知道这是 20 美元一个月的 Plus 计划，还是 200 美元一个月的 Pro 计划？只是想了解一下你的……

12:32-12:35 - Clara: No. It's a plus plan. It's a plus plan. - 不。是 Plus 计划。是 Plus 计划。

12:38-12:51 - Researcher: Perfect. So ChatGPT Plus from the company, and Relume $18month from you personally. Are there any other AI tools or apps you pay for yourself - maybe something for personal use, or creative projects, or anything else? Even if it's just a small subscription? - 完美。公司付 Plus 计划，你个人支付每月 18 美元的 Relume。 还有其他你个人付费的 AI 工具或应用吗？也许是个人用途、创意项目或者其他？哪怕只是一个小额订阅？

12:53-12:59 - Clara: No. I don't think so. Just the Relume for myself, and then I use company tools - 没有，我想没有了。我个人只付 Relume，其余用公司的工具。

13:01-13:11 - Researcher: Okay, so just Relume for you personally at $18month. Let me ask about different categories - do you use any AI chatbot assistants besides ChatGPT and Gemini? Like Claude, Perplexity, or anything else? - 好的，所以你个人每月只支付 18 美元的 Relume。 让我问问不同的类别——除了 ChatGPT 和 Gemini，你还使用其他 AI 聊天助手吗？比如 Claude, Perplexity 或者其他的？

13:14-13:18 - Clara: I've used Claude before personally in a personal project. - 我以前在个人项目里用过 Claude。

13:21-13:24 - Researcher: Was that on the free version, or did you pay for Claude at some point? - 那是用免费版，还是你曾付过费？

13:25-13:28 - Clara: It was the free version. I was just testing it out. - 是免费版。我当时只是试用一下。

13:30-13:39 - Researcher: Got it. What about content generation tools - like AI for creating images, videos, music, or writing? Anything like Midjourney, DALL-E, Runway, or others you've paid for? - 明白了。内容生成工具呢——比如用于创建图像、视频、音乐或写作的 AI？像 Midjourney, DALL-E, Runway 或者其他你付过费的？

13:45-13:49 - Clara: I've used those. I haven't paid for them. I've used the free versions of those. - 我用过那些，但我没有付过费。我用的是免费版。

13:51-14:01 - Researcher: Okay, so you've tried them but stuck with free. What about productivity or work tools with AI - like Notion AI, Grammarly Premium, transcription services, or anything like that? Any paid subscriptions there? - 好的，所以你试过但一直坚持用免费的。 那么生产力或工作类 AI 工具呢——比如 Notion AI, Grammarly 高级版、转录服务或类似的？有任何付费订阅吗？

14:05-14:07 - Clara: Just the free versions. - 只有免费版。

14:08-14:22 - Researcher: Alright, so to recap - the only AI tool you're personally paying for is Relume at $18month. Everything else is either company-paid or free versions. Why did you decide to pay for Relume yourself instead of asking the company to cover it, or just using the free version? - 好的，总结一下——你个人唯一付费的 AI 工具是每月 18 美元的 Relume。其他要么是公司付费，要么是免费版。 你为什么决定自己支付 Relume，而不是要求公司报销，或者干脆用免费版？

14:24-14:45 - Clara: I I love it. I love Relume. It's just fantastic for what I do. I use it for personal projects as well. So it is something I I I use often. But asking the company to cover it is a thought. - 我太爱它了。我超爱 Relume。它对我做的事情来说太棒了。我也在个人项目里用它。所以它是我的高频工具。不过，让公司报销确实是一个可以考虑的想法。

14:48-14:59 - Researcher: Ha! Yeah, might be worth asking since you're using it for work too. What makes Relume so fantastic for you? Like, what does it do that makes it worth the $18 compared to the other tools you're fine using for free? - 哈哈！是的，既然你也在工作中用它，也许值得提一下。 是什么让 Relume 对你来说如此出色？相比那些你愿意使用免费版的工具，它有哪些功能让你觉得值得花这 18 美元？

15:14-15:22 - Clara: I like the way that Relume has an to go it goes right into my Figma. So I can create something in Relume and then work with the design right into Figma. That's what's really good about it. It's super fast too. - 我喜欢 Relume 能直接导入进我的 Figma。我可以在 Relume 中创建一些内容，然后在 Figma 里直接进行设计修整。这就是它非常棒的地方。而且它超级快。

15:24-15:27 - Researcher: So the integration is key - it's - 所以集成是关键——它……

15:27-15:27 - Clara: Mhmm. - 嗯哼。

15:30-15:45 - Researcher: not just another standalone tool, it flows right into your existing workflow. That makes sense. Thinking about all the AI purchases recently - has there been any AI app or tool that you bought or subscribed to that made you feel really satisfied? Like, "this was totally worth it"? - 不只是另一个独立的工具，它直接融入了你现有的工作流程。这很有道理。 回想最近所有的 AI 购买行为——有没有哪款 AI 应用或工具是你买了或订阅后，感觉非常满意的？就像“这钱花的完全值”那种？

15:57-16:30 - Clara: I mean, that was one of them. I the integration, you're absolutely right. Because with the other tools, you can make something. But if you wanna tweak it yourself or just I just I like the plug in to Figma with the Relume. We also used Beautiful for a while. I liked it. But we ended up going to Gamma instead. Because Gamma was just faster. Like, Beautiful seemed to take more time. It ended up kinda looking a little bit more professional. It looked better in the end. But there was a lot of labor to it. So, just for those really quick things, gamma did the trick. So we canceled the beautiful subscription. - 我想，那个（Relume）就是其中之一。你说的没错，就是集成。因为用其他工具，你虽然可以做出东西，但如果你想自己微调，我真的很喜欢 Relume 的 Figma 插件。我们之前也用过一段时间 Beautiful.ai。我很喜欢它。但最后我们还是转向了 Gamma。因为 Gamma 更快。Beautiful 感觉比较花时间。虽然它最后出来的效果可能看起来稍微专业一点，更好看，但需要投入很多劳动。所以对于那种快速交付的工作，Gamma 就够用了。因此我们取消了 Beautiful 的订阅。

16:32-16:47 - Researcher: Interesting - so you actually dropped Beautiful.ai because even though the output looked better, Gamma was faster and that mattered more for your use case. When you say Beautiful took more labor, what do you mean? Like, was it harder to edit, or did it require more input upfront, or something else? - 有趣——所以你们实际上弃用了 Beautiful.ai。因为即使产出效果更好，但 Gamma 更快，而对于你们的使用场景来说，速度更重要。 当你说 Beautiful 需要更多劳动时，你的意思是什么？是更难编辑，还是前期需要输入更多内容，或者别的？

16:56-17:07 - Clara: Yeah. With Gamma, you just kinda could throw in your text, and it would make the slides for you. I felt like beautiful you it just took a lot more time, like, to to customize each and every page It it just it was kinda clunky, and it just kinda took longer. - 是的。用 Gamma，你就把文本丢进去，它就帮你把幻灯片做好了。我觉得 Beautiful 要花更多时间，比如去定制每一页，它有点笨重，花费时间更长。

17:09-17:15 - Researcher: So Gamma just gets out of your way faster. Makes sense for quick checklists and PDFs. Has there been any AI purchase - 所以 Gamma 能让你更快完成任务。对于快速核对清单和 PDF 来说很合理。 有没有哪次 AI 购买……

17:15-17:15 - Clara: Mhmm. - 嗯哼。

17:17-17:23 - Researcher: that felt like a disappointment or waste of money? Something where you thought, "this isn't worth what I'm paying"? - 感觉很失望或浪费钱？那种让你想“这不值得我付的钱”的东西？

17:25-17:27 - Clara: No. Just that one. - 没有，就那一个。

17:29-17:32 - Researcher: Just Beautiful.ai - and you already canceled it, - 就 Beautiful.ai——而且你已经取消了。

17:32-17:32 - Clara: Mhmm. - 嗯哼。

17:35-17:45 - Researcher: so problem solved. Now looking ahead - over the next 6 months, do you think your spending on AI tools will increase, stay about the same, or decrease? What's your gut feeling? - 所以问题解决了。 展望未来——在接下来的 6 个月里，你认为你在 AI 工具上的支出会增加、保持不变还是减少？你的直觉是怎样的？

17:46-17:53 - Clara: I'm sure it'll increase as the AI gets, uh, smarter and faster. And can do more and more. - 我确定会增加，因为 AI 会变得越来越聪明、越来越快。能做的事情也越来越多。

17:55-18:03 - Researcher: What kinds of things are you hoping AI will be able to do that would make you willing to spend more? Like, what would push you to add another subscription or upgrade? - 你希望 AI 能做到哪些目前还做不到的事情，从而让你愿意花更多钱？比如，什么会促使你增加另一个订阅或升级？

18:05-18:17 - Clara: Wish it would get better at actual graphic design. You can ask it to do something, and it'll output something, but it's usually either not high resolution, not exactly what I wanted, - 我希望它能变得更擅长真正的平面设计。你可以要求它做点什么，它会有产出，但通常要么分辨率不高，要么不是我真正想要的。

18:19-18:21 - Researcher: What would "better at - “更擅长……”指的是……

18:29-18:30 - Clara: stuff like that. It just wasn't better at actual design. Like, you can make a landing page, but I want it to look really good and it doesn't always. - 之类的东西。它就是不擅长真正的设计。比如，你可以让它做一个落地页，但我想要它看起来真的很好看，但它表现不稳定。

18:35-18:47 - Researcher: So you want it to actually produce professional-quality design output, not just rough drafts you have to completely redo. What specifically falls short right now? Like, is it the layout, the typography, color choices, or something else? - 所以你希望它能产出专业品质的设计成果，而不只是那种你需要完全重做的草稿。 目前具体哪里做得不够好？比如是布局、排版、配色选择，还是其他的？

18:53-19:43 - Clara: Yeah. It's that stuff, and it's also that I'll give you an example. I just wanted some kind of illustrations for a client. He wanted to incorporate them into his website and I gave the AI over and over. I want it to be David Downton style. I want it to scream San Diego. I want it to be watercolor. It would spit out stuff, and maybe I'd get one thing that I really liked, but I wanted a series. It just seemed to just take forever for me to try to tell it what I wanted, and it just it just felt flat. It was hard to get a series. I could get a picture or two that was right, but the full series was difficult. And then sometimes it'd be like things like the car wouldn't actually make sense on the road or there'd be a double tire and things like that. - 是的。就是那些东西。还有一个例子，我刚想给一个客户做一些插画。他想把插画融入到他的网站里，我反复给 AI 提示：我想要大卫·唐顿（David Downton）的风格，我想要带有圣地亚哥（San Diego）的气息，我想要水彩画效果。它吐出了一堆东西，也许我能得到一张我很喜欢的，但我想要的是一个系列。为了告诉它我想要什么，好像花了我半辈子的时间，而且效果还是很平淡。很难得到一整套连贯的作品。我能得到一两张对的图，但很难做出全系列。而且有时候会出现那种车在路上跑不通，或者出现双轮胎之类的低级错误。

19:47-19:49 - Researcher: So it's inconsistency - both within a - 所以是不一致性——在同一个……中……

19:53-20:02 - Clara: Inconsistency and also just not getting it not being able to communicate what I wanted or it not understanding what I wanted. For a whole series of images. - 不一致，而且我无法准确传达我想要的东西，或者它不理解我想要什么。尤其是针对一整套系列图。

20:05-20:10 - Researcher: That's frustrating - especially when you need a cohesive set that all works together visually. When you were trying to - 那确实很令人沮丧——特别是当你需要视觉风格统一的成套作品时。 当你尝试……

20:10-20:10 - Clara: Mhmm. - 嗯哼。

20:13-20:19 - Researcher: generate those San Diego illustrations, which AI tool were you using? Was it the generative fill in Photoshop, or something else? - 生成那些圣地亚哥插画时，你用的是哪个 AI 工具？是 Photoshop 里的生成式填充，还是其他的？

20:20-20:32 - Clara: I actually use Adobe Firefly, then I tried my luck with ChatGPT, and I tried, you know, Gemini's Imagen. I tried multiple things. - 我其实用了 Adobe Firefly，然后又在 ChatGPT 上碰运气，还试了 Gemini 的 Imagen。我试了好多东西。

20:35-20:45 - Researcher: And none of them could nail the consistent series, even though you'd get one or two good ones here and there. Did you end up just doing the illustrations yourself, or how did you solve it for that client? - 但它们都没法搞定风格一致的一系列作品，尽管你能偶尔得到一两个好的。 你最后是自己画了那些插画，还是怎么为那个客户解决的？

20:50-21:15 - Clara: Yes. I ended up at what we ended up doing is I got lucky, and he kinda changed course on what he wanted So he didn't want them to be as painterly anymore, but they were more stylized, so I did a stylized version of the San Diego lifeguard stands for him. In the bright colors, and the AI had no problem doing that. I think it was just a creative art that it had an issue with. - 是的。我最后——运气比较好的是，他改变了原本想要的方向。所以他不再要求那种画意风格（painterly），而是更偏向风格化一点。所以我为他做了一套色彩鲜艳、具有风格化的圣地亚哥救生台。AI 做那个一点问题都没有。我觉得它可能只是对创意艺术风格有困难。

21:18-21:19 - Researcher: Interesting - so when - 有趣——那当……

21:19-21:29 - Clara: Actually, you know what I ended up doing? I gave it photographs. So it it it seemed to be better at copying the photographs rather than coming up with things on its own. - 实际上，你知道我最后怎么做的吗？我给它喂了照片。所以它似乎更擅长模仿照片，而不是自己凭空想象。

21:31-21:36 - Researcher: Ah, so you fed it reference images of the actual lifeguard - 啊，所以你喂给了它真实救生台的参考图片……

21:36-21:36 - Clara: Mhmm. - 嗯哼。

21:38-21:54 - Researcher: stands and then it could stylize those. That worked better than trying to describe what you wanted from scratch. Let's zoom out for a second - you mentioned you use ChatGPT, Gemini, Relume, the AI features in Photoshop and Figma, and Gamma for work. Are there any other AI tools you use regularly for work tasks? - 救生台，然后它能把这些风格化。这比试图从零开始描述你的需求效果要好。 让我们把视线稍微拉远一点——你提到工作中会使用 ChatGPT, Gemini, Relume, 以及 Photoshop、Figma 和 Gamma 的 AI 功能。还有其他你经常用于办公的 AI 工具吗？

21:59-22:01 - Clara: Grammarly. - Grammarly。

22:02-22:12 - Researcher: Got it, Grammarly too. So that's ChatGPT, Gemini, Relume, Photoshop's AI, Figma's AI, Gamma, and Grammarly. Out of all those, which ones are you personally paying for versus the company covering? - 明白了，还有 Grammarly。所以是 ChatGPT, Gemini, Relume, Photoshop AI, Figma AI, Gamma 和 Grammarly。 在所有这些工具中，哪些是你个人付费的，哪些是公司报销的？

22:16-22:17 - Clara: Relume. - Relume。

22:20-22:33 - Researcher: Just Relume at $18month - everything else is either free or company-paid. Let me dig into each of these tools with you, starting with the ones you use most. Between ChatGPT and Gemini, which one do you find yourself opening first when you need something? - 只有每月 18 美元的 Relume——其他要么是免费版，要么是公司付费。 让我深入了解一下这些工具，从你最常用的开始。在 ChatGPT 和 Gemini 之间，当你需要帮助时，你通常会先打开哪一个？

22:35-22:38 - Clara: Actually, I think it's ChatGPT. - 实际上，我想是 ChatGPT。

22:39-22:45 - Researcher: What do you mainly use ChatGPT for day-to-day? Like what are the typical tasks you're throwing at it? - 在日常工作中，你主要用 ChatGPT 做什么？典型的任务有哪些？

22:53-23:04 - Clara: It's a lot of copy. I'm throwing a lot of copy at it. Like punchy headlines. I need text to fill such and such paragraph on this web page. So that's the main thing. - 很多文案工作。我把各种文案丢进去。比如给力的标题。我需要一段文字来填充网页上的某个段落。这是主要用途。

23:06-23:16 - Researcher: So mostly writing website copy - headlines, body text, that kind of thing. Can you walk me through the last two times you used ChatGPT? What specifically did you ask it to do, and what did you get back? - 所以主要是写网站文案——标题、正文之类的。 你能带我回顾一下你最后两次使用 ChatGPT 的场景吗？你具体要求它做了什么，反馈结果如何？

23:18-23:18 - Clara: Let's see. - 让我想想。

23:20-23:20 - Researcher: Take - 慢慢来。

23:24-23:54 - Clara: Oh, actually, I had a Facebook ad, so it was it was a tall one. I needed it to I needed, uh, it to be longer to fit the tall screen. So I asked ChatGPT to elongate the top and the bottom so it fit, and it did that. Then I also asked it to proofread a guest guide for me. So one image generation and one proofreading. - 哦，实际上我刚做了一个 Facebook 广告，那个广告位很窄长。我需要它在垂直方向上变长以适应那个长屏幕。所以我让 ChatGPT 向上和向下延伸图像背景以匹配尺寸，它做到了。然后我还让它帮我校对了一份访客指南。所以一次是图像生成，一次是校对。

23:56-24:03 - Researcher: Okay, so for the Facebook ad - you gave it the existing ad copy and asked it to add more content to the top and bottom to fill the tall format? - 好的，关于那个 Facebook 广告——你给了它现成的广告文案，让它增加更多内容到顶部和底部以填充窄长格式？

24:04-24:08 - Clara: No. It was an image that I needed it to stretch out. - 不。是一张图片，我需要它把图片撑开。

24:10-24:17 - Researcher: Oh, got it - so you used the image generation feature in ChatGPT to extend the image vertically. Did it do a - 哦，明白了——所以你使用了 ChatGPT 里的图像生成功能来纵向扩充图片。效果好吗？

24:17-24:22 - Clara: Yes. Yes. It did a great job, actually, um, surprisingly. - 是的。是的。它做得非常好，实际上……令人惊讶。

24:24-24:29 - Researcher: Nice! And for the guest guide proofreading - was that a document you wrote, or something a client gave you? - 太棒了！关于那份访客指南校对——那是你自己写的文档，还是客户给你的？

24:32-24:47 - Clara: Something that client gave me, it was just kind of very long for a new resort development, was a very long guide that just needed to be checked before I sent it off to the printer. - 是客户给我的，是一份关于新度假村开发的非常长的指南。在我把它送去印刷之前，需要检查一下。

24:49-24:54 - Researcher: Makes sense. Did ChatGPT catch anything significant, or was it mostly just confirming it was clean? - 明白了。ChatGPT 查出什么严重的问题了吗，还是主要只是确认内容没问题？

24:56-25:20 - Clara: It was pretty good. The one issue I had with it was the word wainscoting. It actually told me to change it, so I did. And, apparently, it can be spelled two different ways. There's a British way and American way, and it had me put it the British way. A coworker caught it, so I was able to change it. Not that it was wrong, but the American way was preferred. - 查得还行。我遇到的一个问题是“wainscoting”（护墙板）这个词。它让我改掉，我就改了。结果，这个词显然有两种拼写方式，一种是英国式，一种是美国式，而它让我改成了英国式的拼写。一位同事发现了，所以我改了回来。倒不是说那个词拼错了，但美国式的拼写更符合要求。

25:22-25:28 - Researcher: Interesting - so it defaulted to British spelling without asking which you preferred. That could've been awkward if it hadn't been - 有趣——它在没问你偏好的情况下默认使用了英式拼写。如果在印刷前没被……

25:28-25:29 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

25:30-25:38 - Researcher: caught before printing. Let me rewind - when did you first start using ChatGPT? Like, do you remember when you first heard about it or tried it? - 发现的话，可能会有点尴尬。 让我倒带一下——你是什么时候开始使用 ChatGPT 的？你还记得最早是怎么听说或尝试它的吗？

25:41-25:44 - Clara: Oh god. Only three years ago? - 天呐。也就是三年前？

25:46-25:52 - Researcher: Around when it first launched, yeah. Where did you first hear about it - was it from coworkers, social media, news? - 大约是它刚发布的时候，是的。你最早是从哪里听说的——同事、社交媒体还是新闻？

25:54-25:57 - Clara: News. Then coworkers. - 新闻。然后是同事。

25:59-26:04 - Researcher: What made you actually try it out after hearing about it? Do you remember what you were curious - 在听说之后，是什么促使你真正去尝试它的？你还记得当时好奇……

26:04-26:05 - Clara: Sounded out of curiosity. - 纯粹出于好奇。

26:07-26:08 - Researcher: to test? - 想测试什么吗？

26:09-26:10 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

26:12-26:14 - Researcher: What did you ask it to do that first time? - 你第一次让它做什么了？

26:19-26:24 - Clara: Probably asked you to write me something. I probably just talked to it. It was just fascinating. - 可能让它帮我写点东西。我也许只是跟它聊了聊天。它当时太令人着迷了。

26:26-26:30 - Researcher: Just exploring what it could do. And pretty quickly it became a regular work tool for you? - 只是探索它能做什么。然后很快它就成了你固定的办公工具？

26:31-26:32 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

26:35-26:42 - Researcher: So you mentioned your company pays for your ChatGPT subscription - do you know which plan that is? Is it the Plus plan, or one of the team plans? - 你提到你的公司支付了 ChatGPT 的订阅费——你知道那是哪个计划吗？是 Plus 计划，还是企业团队计划之一？

26:47-26:51 - Clara: It's a twenty dollar a month plan. I think it's a plus. - 是 20 美元一个月的计划。我想是 Plus。

26:52-26:59 - Researcher: Got it, the Plus plan. Do you remember how long you used the free version before the company started paying for the subscription? - 明白了，Plus 计划。你还记得在公司开始支付订阅费之前，你用了多久的免费版吗？

26:59-27:04 - Clara: The company started paying for it pretty pretty much right away. Maybe after a couple of months. - 公司几乎马上就开始付钱了。也许只过了几个月。

27:06-27:13 - Researcher: So you had a couple months on the free version. During that time, what were you mainly using it for - same kind of copywriting tasks? - 所以你用过几个月的免费版。在那段时间里，你主要用它做什么——也是类似的文案写作任务吗？

27:14-27:15 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

27:18-27:22 - Researcher: What was the difference you noticed once you got upgraded to Plus? What changed for you? - 一旦升级到 Plus 版后，你注意到的区别是什么？对你来说有什么变化？

27:27-27:49 - Clara: It was much faster when I it was more I being a designer, I would upload images and ask it to make edits and things like that. It just it was faster, and it actually would would would take images and generate images, which it didn't do too much of on the free version. And it would also have, like, times it would run out of the amount of images you could do in a day, things like that. - 速度快了很多，而且作为一个设计师，我会上传图片并要求它进行修改之类的操作。它就是更快了，而且它实际上可以接收图片并生成图片，这在免费版上功能不多。而且免费版有时会用完每天可以生成的图片额度，类似于这样的限制。

27:51-28:11 - Researcher: Ah, so the free version had daily limits on image generation and was slower overall. Once you got Plus, you could actually use the image features reliably for work. If your company stopped paying for ChatGPT tomorrow and you had to decide whether to pay for it yourself - how likely would you be to keep the subscription? Give me a number from 0 to 10, where 0 is definitely not paying and 10 is absolutely paying. - 啊，所以免费版对图片生成有每日限制，而且整体速度较慢。一旦有了 Plus，你就能在工作中可靠地使用图片功能了。 如果你的公司明天停止为 ChatGPT 付费，而你必须决定是否自己掏钱——你继续订阅的可能性有多大？请给我一个 0 到 10 之间的数字，0 表示绝对不付，10 表示绝对会付。

28:12-28:13 - Clara: Probably an eight - 可能是 8 分。

28:15-28:19 - Researcher: An 8 - that's pretty high. What makes you say 8 instead of, say, a 5 or a 10? - 8 分——那相当高了。是什么让你说是 8 分，而不是，比如 5 分或 10 分？

28:23-28:33 - Clara: Probably because I'm I'm I'm fairly dependent on it now. I've been using it for so long. And almost every day. For all these things. I've definitely grown to be dependent on it. - 大概是因为我现在相当依赖它。我已经用了这么长时间了。而且几乎每天都在用。为了处理所有这些事情。我确实已经变得对它有依赖性了。

28:36-28:42 - Researcher: You said 8 instead of 10 though - what would need to be different for it to be a 10, where you'd pay without any hesitation? - 不过你说是 8 分而不是 10 分——需要有什么不同才能达到 10 分，让你毫不犹豫地付费？

28:49-28:57 - Clara: The difference is I'm not sure if they're gonna come out with something better. It seems to be, uh, Wild Wild West with AI these days. So not saying a full ten yet in case they were to come out with something better. - 区别在于我不确定他们是否会推出更好的东西。如今的 AI 领域似乎就像是个“西部大荒野”。所以目前还没说满分 10 分，以防他们将来推出更好的产品。

28:59-29:08 - Researcher: So you're keeping an eye out for what else might emerge. Makes sense. What's the thing you're most satisfied with about ChatGPT right now - like what does it do really well for you? - 所以你还在关注可能出现的其他选择。有道理。 目前你对 ChatGPT 最满意的地方是什么——比如它在哪些方面为你做得非常好？

29:10-29:39 - Clara: Copy. I don't know how long, especially being more of a visual designer. I just get stuck with not copy or, like, little tasks, like, it it can create, like, a a PDF for me really quickly, like a checklist. It did that for me the other day. Little small image updates or icon creation. Stuff like that. Stuff I would have to do myself that I don't know. - 文案。我不知道要写多久，尤其是作为一名偏视觉的设计师。我经常卡在文案或者一些小任务上，比如它能非常快地为我创建一个 PDF，像清单之类的。前几天它刚帮我做过。还有一些小的图片更新或图标创建。诸如此类的事情。那些我自己必须去做但我又不太懂的事情。

29:39-29:47 - Researcher: And on the flip side - what's the thing that frustrates you most about ChatGPT, or that you wish worked better? - 另一方面——ChatGPT 最让你沮丧的事情是什么，或者你希望哪方面能运行得更好？

30:11-30:11 - Clara: Yeah. Some of the image generation sometimes, uh, it hallucinates, like, that's the main thing. It was for a while, it kept telling me it could create me a design in Figma, which is awesome. I would love that, but it doesn't. That's why I use Relume because it can do that. But um, - 嗯。有时候是一些图片生成，呃，它会产生幻觉，这是最主要的。有段时间，它一直告诉我它可以在 Figma 中为我创建设计，这很棒。我很喜欢这个功能，但它其实做不到。这就是为什么我使用 Relume，因为 Relume 能做到。但是，嗯……

30:13-30:13 - Researcher: Wait, - 等一下，

30:18-30:19 - Clara: I I actually thought it would, and it kept telling me it would. But it just yeah, not true. - 我当时真的以为它可以，它也一直告诉我它可以。但事实证明，并不是真的。

30:22-30:26 - Researcher: so ChatGPT told you it could create designs directly in Figma, but when you tried it just didn't work? - 所以 ChatGPT 告诉你它可以直接在 Figma 中创建设计，但当你尝试时它就是不行？

30:27-30:32 - Clara: It just wouldn't yeah. It can't do that. It thinks it can do it. It can't. - 就是不行，对。它做不到。它以为自己能做到。实际上不能。

30:34-30:42 - Researcher: That's frustrating - it confidently promised something it can't deliver. And you mentioned image hallucinations too - what kind of weird stuff does it generate? - 那很令人沮丧——它自信地承诺了它无法交付的东西。你还提到了图片幻觉——它会生成什么样的奇怪东西？

30:45-31:02 - Clara: Oh, not an image hallucination, really. It just sometimes the images would have, like, I I wanted a drawing of someone dancing, and they had an extra leg or an arm didn't connect to the right place, stuff like that. - 哦，倒也不是真的幻觉，只是有时图片里，比如我想要一张有人在跳舞的图，结果他们多出一条腿，或者手臂没连接在正确的地方，诸如此类。

31:05-31:14 - Researcher: Ah, anatomical weirdness. Similar to the double tires issue you mentioned earlier with other AI tools. Does that happen often enough that you can't rely on it for client-facing images? - 啊，解剖学上的怪异。类似于你之前提到的其他 AI 工具出现的“双轮胎”问题。这种情况发生的频率高到让你无法在面向客户的图片中信任它吗？

31:24-31:27 - Clara: Sometimes it seems to need a good reference. When I started feeding it photographs and then asking it to create artwork from there, it did a better job. - 有时它似乎需要一个好的参考。当我开始给它喂照片，然后要求它在此基础上创作艺术作品时，它做得更好了。

31:29-31:33 - Researcher: So it's better at transforming something you give it than creating from scratch. That tracks with what - 所以它更擅长转换你提供的东西，而不是从头开始创作。这符合刚才……

31:33-31:34 - Clara: Yes. - 是。

31:37-31:46 - Researcher: you said earlier about the San Diego lifeguard stands. If you had a magic wand and could change one thing about ChatGPT right now - what would you fix or add? - 你提到的关于圣地亚哥救生员站的说法。 如果你有一根魔法棒，现在可以改变 ChatGPT 的一件事——你会修复或增加什么？

31:47-31:51 - Clara: That's it. I wish it would do a better job at creating things from scratch. - 就是那个。我希望它能更擅长从头开始创建东西。

31:53-32:08 - Researcher: Better original image generation - higher quality, more accurate to what you ask for. Let me get some quick ratings from you. On a scale of 1 to 5, where 1 is very dissatisfied and 5 is very satisfied - how satisfied are you with ChatGPT's ability to complete the tasks you give it? - 更好的原创图片生成——质量更高，更符合你的要求。 让我从你这里获取一些快速评分。从 1 到 5 分，1 是非常不满意，5 是非常满意——你对 ChatGPT 完成你交给它的任务的能力有多满意？

32:11-32:12 - Clara: Three to four, - 3 到 4 分。

32:15-32:16 - Researcher: 3 to 4 - what makes it not quite a 5? - 3 到 4 分——是什么让它没能达到 5 分？

32:19-32:28 - Clara: Those things I mentioned earlier. Its ability to create original images and some anatomical issues or some hallucinations. - 就是我之前提到的那些事。它创建原创图片的能力，以及一些解剖学问题或幻觉。

32:30-32:38 - Researcher: Got it. Next rating - how unique is ChatGPT compared to other similar AI tools you've tried? 1 to 5, where 1 is not unique at all and 5 is very unique. - 明白了。下一个评分——与你尝试过的其他类似 AI 工具相比，ChatGPT 的独特程度如何？1 到 5 分，1 是完全不独特，5 是非常独特。

32:44-32:48 - Clara: Maybe three. It's not unique, but it was the first. - 可能是 3 分。它不独特，但它是第一个。

32:52-33:03 - Researcher: It was first to market, but now others do similar things. And last rating - how satisfied are you with ChatGPT's value for money? 1 to 5, where 1 is very dissatisfied with the price and 5 is very satisfied. - 它是第一个进入市场的，但现在其他工具也能做类似的事情。最后一个评分——你对 ChatGPT 的性价比有多满意？1 到 5 分，1 是对价格非常不满意，5 是非常满意。

33:06-33:07 - Clara: Five. - 5 分。

33:09-33:13 - Researcher: A 5 - so you think $20 a month is totally worth it for what you get? - 5 分——所以你认为每月 20 美元买到这些功能完全值得？

33:15-33:15 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

33:19-33:27 - Researcher: Nice. Alright, let's talk about Reloom now - you mentioned paying $18 a month for that one yourself. Walk me through what you mainly use Reloom for. - 很好。现在让我们谈谈 Relume——你提到你自己每月支付 18 美元。请向我介绍一下你主要用 Relume 做什么。

33:39-33:54 - Clara: Copywriting, web design for all the different sections, and it also creates style guides. It gives me a color palette, font pairings. It it it it great. It pretty much gives you just about a full website design. It even, uh, does some image generation and puts it in certain places, and it's just very easy to edit. - 文案写作、各个不同板块的网页设计，它还会创建样式指南。它给我配色方案、字体搭配。它……它太棒了。它几乎可以给你一整个完整的网站设计。它甚至能进行一些图片生成并放在特定位置，而且非常易于编辑。

33:57-34:06 - Researcher: So it's doing a lot of the heavy lifting for website design - copy, layout, style guides, even images. Can you give me a specific recent example of a website you built with it? - 所以它在网页设计中承担了很多繁重的工作——文案、布局、样式指南，甚至是图片。你能给我一个最近你用它构建网站的具体例子吗？

34:11-34:15 - Clara: I built a landing page most recently. - 我最近刚建了一个落地页。

34:17-34:17 - Researcher: What was the landing - 那个落地页……

34:17-34:20 - Clara: Just like a why choose this resort landing page. - 就像一个“为什么选择这家度假村”的落地页。

34:22-34:26 - Researcher: page for - like what kind of hospitality manager or property? - 那是为什么样的客户做的——比如什么样的酒店经理或房产？

34:27-34:32 - Clara: It wasn't a property. It was just a manager. It was an individual manager. - 不是房产公司。只是一个经理。是一个独立的经理。

34:34-34:34 - Researcher: Got it. So - 明白了。所以……

34:39-34:43 - Clara: He's a boutique hotels. He he specializes in boutique hotels in Evanston. In, um, right outside Chicago. - 他做精品酒店。他专注于埃文斯顿（Evanston）的精品酒店。在，嗯，芝加哥郊外。

34:45-34:52 - Researcher: So a boutique hotels specialist in Evanston. When you used Reloom for that - what did you input to get it started, and what did it give you back? - 埃文斯顿的一位精品酒店专家。当你为此使用 Relume 时——你输入了什么来开始，它又反馈了你什么？

35:00-35:23 - Clara: I think I just put in what I was looking for. And it just kinda spit it out from there. Then from there, you can kind of go each section and pick different designs for the sections, and you can also ask it to adjust the copy if you needed to. So you just give it, like, a sentence to get started, and then it it just kinda takes it and runs with it. - 我记得我就输入了我在寻找的东西。然后它就那样生成出来了。接着，你可以逐个部分去选择不同的设计风格，你也可以让它根据需要调整文案。所以你只需要给它一句话作为开始，它就会在那基础上发挥并生成下去。

35:25-35:26 - Researcher: And then it creates - 然后它就创建了……

35:32-35:39 - Clara: The cool thing is that it's really easy to, uh, make changes, like, small changes, like, just to change section by section, um, to move things around. Just to just to really edit it. - 酷的地方在于它非常容易做出更改，比如一些小变动，就像逐个板块地修改，或者移动位置。真的非常易于编辑。

35:41-35:44 - Researcher: the whole thing directly in Figma since it integrates? - 因为它是集成的，所以是直接在 Figma 中生成整个东西吗？

35:46-35:47 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

35:49-35:54 - Researcher: That's the key difference from ChatGPT claiming it could do Figma. When did you first start using Reloom? - 这是与 ChatGPT 声称能做 Figma 设计的关键区别。你最早是什么时候开始使用 Relume 的？

35:56-35:58 - Clara: About a year ago. - 大约一年前。

36:00-36:02 - Researcher: Where did you first hear about it? - 你最早是从哪里听说它的？

36:03-36:13 - Clara: I think I was watching a tutorial a Figma tutorial, and someone was talking about how they use Reloom. And I checked it out. - 我记得当时我在看一个教程，一个 Figma 教程，有人在谈论他们如何使用 Relume。于是我就去查看了一下。

36:15-36:19 - Researcher: Do you remember what made you decide to actually try it after seeing that tutorial? - 你还记得在看了那个教程后，是什么让你决定实际尝试一下的吗？

36:28-36:29 - Clara: Well, just seeing the tutorial of showing how it works, and another designer talking about how helpful it was. - 主要是看到教程展示了它是如何工作的，还有另一位设计师在谈论它有多大帮助。

36:32-36:35 - Researcher: Did you use a free version or trial first before paying the $18 a month? - 在每月支付 18 美元之前，你先使用了免费版或试用版吗？

36:36-36:37 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

36:40-36:43 - Researcher: How long did you use the free version, and what did you think of it? - 你用了多久免费版，你觉得它怎么样？

36:44-37:04 - Clara: For a couple of months, I liked it. It would just give you one page at a time and one project at a time. So it pretty much gave you almost all the features. It just limited the amount. So I really got a good idea of how it worked before I committed to payment. - 用了几个月，我很喜欢。它一次只会给你一个页面和一个项目。所以它几乎给了你所有的功能，只是限制了数量。所以在决定付费之前，我真的很清楚它是如何运行的。

37:06-37:11 - Researcher: So the free version let you test the full functionality, just on a smaller scale. What was the - 所以免费版让你测试了完整的功能，只是规模较小。那是……

37:11-37:11 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

37:13-37:17 - Researcher: moment or project that made you think "okay, I need to pay for this now"? - 哪一个时刻或项目让你觉得“好吧，我现在需要付费了”？

37:26-37:31 - Clara: The minute it started doing the style guide, when once it started doing style guides, it went from wireframe to actually giving you color palettes, uh, fonts. And image generation. That was it. - 在它开始能做样式指南的那一刻。一旦它开始做样式指南，它就从线框图进化到能实际给你配色方案、字体和图片生成。就是那个时候。

37:33-37:34 - Researcher: So they added those - 所以他们增加了那些……

37:34-37:36 - Clara: So a new feature It was when they added a new feature. - 所以是一个新功能，是当他们增加了一个新功能的时候。

37:39-37:46 - Researcher: features while you were on the free version, and that tipped you over. Did you hesitate at all about paying $18 a month, or was it an easy decision? - 那些功能是在你还在用免费版时增加的，这让你决定付费。对于每月付 18 美元，你犹豫过吗，还是一个很容易的决定？

37:47-37:48 - Clara: Easy decision. - 很容易的决定。

37:50-37:55 - Researcher: What made it easy - especially since you're paying for this one yourself, not the company? - 是什么让这个决定变得容易——特别是这是你自己掏钱，而不是公司付账？

37:57-38:01 - Clara: It can do so much. It was everything that it could do. It just saved me so much time. - 它能做这么多。全在于它能实现的一切。它帮我节省了太多的时间。

38:03-38:09 - Researcher: Time savings was worth the $18. Have you always paid monthly, or did you ever switch to annual or anything like that? - 节省的时间值得这 18 美元。你一直按月支付吗，还是曾经转成按年支付之类的？

38:10-38:12 - Clara: No. Just monthly. - 没有。就是按月。

38:14-38:19 - Researcher: After you started paying, did the experience change beyond just getting more projects and pages? - 开始付费后，除了能做更多项目和页面，体验有什么变化吗？

38:23-38:23 - Clara: No - 没有。

38:25-38:27 - Researcher: Or was it pretty much what you expected? - 或者说基本上和你预想的一样？

38:35-38:36 - Clara: It was pretty much what I expected. I think they did offer a couple more design options that weren't in the free version. - 基本上和我预想的一样。我想他们确实提供了一些免费版中没有的设计选项。

38:38-38:43 - Researcher: Got it. What would you say is the single most valuable feature in Reloom that makes it worth paying for? - 明白了。你认为 Relume 中最有价值、最值得付费的单一功能是什么？

38:46-38:52 - Clara: The integration into Figma. If you didn't integrate it into Figma, I probably wouldn't have done it. - 与 Figma 的集成。如果不集成到 Figma 中，我可能就不会付费了。

38:54-38:58 - Researcher: So without that direct pipeline into your design tool, it wouldn't be worth it. Have - 所以如果没有那个直接导入你的设计工具的渠道，它就不值得了。那……

38:58-38:59 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

39:01-39:06 - Researcher: you ever stopped paying for Reloom at any point, or have you been continuously subscribed since you started? - 你在任何时候停止过支付 Relume 吗，还是自开始以来一直都在持续订阅？

39:10-39:13 - Clara: Yes. Continuously subscribed since I started. - 是。自开始以来一直持续订阅。

39:15-39:23 - Researcher: Looking ahead, how likely are you to keep paying for Reloom in the future? Give me a 0 to 10 score - 0 being you'll definitely cancel, 10 being you'll definitely keep it. - 展望未来，你继续为 Relume 付费的可能性有多大？请给我一个 0 到 10 的评分——0 表示肯定会取消，10 表示肯定会保留。

39:24-39:25 - Clara: Ten. - 10 分。

39:27-39:30 - Researcher: That's a strong 10. What makes you so certain you'll keep it? - 那是坚定的 10 分。是什么让你如此肯定会保留它？

39:33-39:44 - Clara: Unless something came out that was much better. Uh, I mean, I just love it. I'm dependent on it. And it's great. It pretty much, um, really helps me with my job. - 除非出现了比它好得多的东西。呃，我是说，我就是爱死它了。我离不开它。它很棒。它真的对我的工作有很大帮助。

39:46-39:50 - Researcher: So it's become essential to how you work. What are - 所以它已经成为你工作方式中必不可少的一部分。目前……

39:50-39:50 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

39:52-39:54 - Researcher: you most satisfied with about Reloom right now? - 你对 Relume 最满意的地方是什么？

39:58-40:00 - Clara: The integration. Into my design tool. - 集成。集成到我的设计工具中。

40:02-40:06 - Researcher: And what are you least satisfied with, or what frustrates you most about it? - 那你最不满意的地方是什么，或者它最让你沮丧的地方是什么？

40:20-40:32 - Clara: Sometimes it shows some functionality that you could use on the web page, but sometimes it doesn't transfer into the design tool. - 有时它在网页上展示了一些你可以使用的功能，但有时这些功能无法转化到设计工具（Figma）中。

40:35-40:40 - Researcher: Interesting - so features that work in the Reloom interface don't always carry over when it pushes to Figma? - 有意思——所以 Relume 界面里运行良好的功能，推送到 Figma 时并不总是能同步过去？

40:41-40:42 - Clara: Every so often. - 偶尔会这样。

40:47-40:52 - Researcher: If you had a magic wand and could instantly change one thing about Reloom, what would it be? - 如果你有一根魔法棒，能瞬间改变 Relume 的一件事，那会是什么？

41:00-41:10 - Clara: That would be it. I'd like all the actual functionality and, like, hover effects and I wish it would add effects and functionality. Right now, it does all design very well. I just wish it would add some functionality next. - 就是那个。我希望所有的实际功能以及悬停效果等……我希望它能加入动效和功能性。目前它在设计方面做得非常好。我只是希望它接下来能增加一些功能性。

41:13-41:17 - Researcher: So you want it to go beyond static design and actually build in interactions or - 所以你希望它能超越静态设计，实际构建出交互或……

41:20-41:23 - Clara: Yeah. To prototype. Wish it would prototype. - 对。做原型。希望它能做原型。

41:25-41:27 - Researcher: hover states, that kind of thing? - 悬停状态，诸如此类？

41:28-41:29 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

41:31-41:41 - Researcher: That makes sense. Let me get a few quick ratings from you. How satisfied are you with Reloom's ability to complete the tasks you need? Rate it 1 to 5, where 1 is very dissatisfied and 5 is very satisfied. - 有道理。让我从你这里获取几个快速评分。你对 Relume 完成所需任务的能力有多满意？评分为 1 到 5 分，1 是非常不满意，5 是非常满意。

41:47-41:48 - Clara: Five. - 5 分。

41:51-41:57 - Researcher: How unique do you think Reloom is compared to other similar tools? 1 to 5, where 1 is not unique at all and 5 is very unique. - 与其他类似工具相比，你认为 Relume 的独特程度如何？1 到 5 分，1 是完全不独特，5 是非常有特点。

42:02-42:05 - Clara: Very unique. Five - 非常独特。5 分。

42:08-42:14 - Researcher: And last one - how satisfied are you with Reloom's value for money? 1 to 5, where 1 is very dissatisfied and 5 is very satisfied. - 最后一个——你对 Relume 的性价比有多满意？1 到 5 分，1 是非常不满意，5 是非常满意。

42:17-42:17 - Clara: Five - 5 分。

42:20-42:29 - Researcher: Perfect. So you're clearly very happy with it overall. Let me shift gears - besides ChatGPT and Reloom, are there any other AI tools you use regularly for work or productivity that you're paying for? - 完美。很明显你整体上对它非常满意。让我转个话题——除了 ChatGPT 和 Relume，还有没有其他你经常用于工作或提高生产力且在付费的 AI 工具？

42:39-42:42 - Clara: Gamma, Gamma, which our company pays for, - Gamma，Gamma，这个是我们公司付钱的。

42:44-42:48 - Researcher: Gamma - and your company pays for that one. Are there any - Gamma——你的公司付的钱。还有没有……

42:48-42:48 - Clara: Mhmm. - 嗯。

42:50-42:54 - Researcher: others you personally pay for, or that help with your work tasks? - 其他你自己掏钱，或者能帮助你完成工作任务的工具？

42:57-42:58 - Clara: No. - 没有。

43:01-43:11 - Researcher: Alright. So to recap, the ones you personally pay for are just Reloom at $18 a month. And you said you'd probably pay for ChatGPT yourself if you had to, around an 8 out of 10 likelihood. Is that right? - 好的。所以总结一下，你自己付钱的只有每月 18 美元的 Relume。而且你说过如果必须的话，你大概也会自己付 ChatGPT 的钱，可能性大概是 8/10。对吗？

43:13-43:14 - Clara: That's right. - 没错。

43:17-43:21 - Researcher: Got it. Let me ask about Gamma since your company pays for it. What do you mainly use Gamma for? - 明白了。让我问问 Gamma，既然公司给它付了钱。你主要用 Gamma 做什么？

43:24-43:28 - Clara: Quick PDFs. Presentations, - 快速制作 PDF。PPT 演示文稿。

43:30-43:38 - Researcher: You mentioned earlier that your company switched from Beautiful.ai to Gamma because it was faster. How often are you using Gamma - is it daily, weekly, or more occasional? - 你之前提到你们公司从 Beautiful.ai 切换到了 Gamma，因为它更快。你多久用一次 Gamma——是每天、每周还是偶尔用用？

43:41-43:42 - Clara: More occasional. - 偶尔用用。

43:44-43:48 - Researcher: When you do use it, what kind of presentations or PDFs are you typically creating? - 当你使用它时，你通常创建什么样的演示文稿或 PDF？

43:50-43:55 - Clara: Relocation guides or, like, a proposal to a client. - 搬迁指南，或者给客户的提案。

43:59-44:00 - Researcher: Got it - so - 明白了——所以……

44:00-44:01 - Clara: About different things? - 关于不同的事情。

44:02-44:05 - Researcher: client-facing materials mostly. Now - 大多是面向客户的材料。现在……

44:05-44:06 - Clara: Yeah. - 对。

44:08-44:16 - Researcher: let me ask about the AI tools you use frequently but don't pay for. What's one that comes to mind - something you use a lot but haven't subscribed to? - 让我问问那些你经常使用但不付钱的 AI 工具。你脑子里首先想到的是哪一个——就是那种你用得很多但没订阅过的？

44:25-44:30 - Clara: Probably Gemini. Claude, - 大概是 Gemini。Claude。

44:32-44:33 - Researcher: Okay, so - 好的，所以……

44:33-44:33 - Clara: Grammarly, - Grammarly。

44:35-44:42 - Researcher: Gemini, Claude, and Grammarly. Let's start with Gemini since you mentioned using it daily. You're on the free version, right? - Gemini、Claude 和 Grammarly。让我们从 Gemini 开始，既然你提到每天都用。你用的是免费版，对吗？

44:43-44:47 - Clara: Oh, no. That's paid for by the company. Sorry. So not that one. - 哦，不。那个是公司付钱的。抱歉。所以不是那个。

44:49-44:54 - Researcher: Ah right, company pays for Gemini. So Claude and Grammarly are the ones you use but don't pay for? - 啊对，公司付了 Gemini 的钱。所以 Claude 和 Grammarly 是你使用但不付钱的？

44:58-44:58 - Clara: Yes. - 是。

45:01-45:05 - Researcher: Perfect. Let's talk about Claude first. How often are you actually using it? - 完美。让我们先聊聊 Claude。你实际上多久用一次？

45:10-45:12 - Clara: Maybe once a week. - 大概每周一次。

45:14-45:17 - Researcher: What kinds of tasks are you using Claude for when you do use it? - 当你用 Claude 时，你用它处理哪类任务？

45:18-45:19 - Clara: Mainly copy. - 主要是文案。

45:23-45:27 - Researcher: Similar to ChatGPT then - website copy, headlines, that sort of thing? - 那和 ChatGPT 类似——网站文案、标题之类的？

45:29-45:35 - Clara: Yeah. Proofreading. Copy creation, - 嗯。校对。文案创作。

45:37-45:42 - Researcher: What made you start using Claude in the first place if you were already using ChatGPT? - 如果你已经在用 ChatGPT 了，最初是什么让你开始使用 Claude 的？

45:45-45:47 - Clara: I wanted to compare. - 我想对比一下。

45:51-45:54 - Researcher: And how do they compare? What differences have you noticed between the two? - 那么它们对比起来怎么样？你注意到两者之间有什么区别吗？

45:55-46:06 - Clara: Not a whole lot. Slight differences in the answers. It's just nice sometimes to get a different, perspective, different kinda answers. - 没什么太大的差别。答案有细微的不同。有时候能得到不同的视角、不同的答案也是挺好的。

46:08-46:13 - Researcher: So you're kind of cross-checking or getting variety. Have you ever considered paying for Claude yourself? - 所以你是在交叉核对或者寻找多样性。你有没有考虑过自己掏钱买 Claude？

46:16-46:17 - Clara: No. - 没有。

46:19-46:21 - Researcher: What's the main reason you haven't considered it? - 你没考虑过的主要原因是什么？

46:24-46:29 - Clara: Finances because I already have ChatGPT. Through through work. - 财务原因，因为我已经有了 ChatGPT。通过……通过公司。

46:31-46:38 - Researcher: That makes sense - you're already covered. If ChatGPT didn't exist or you didn't have access to it, would you consider paying for Claude? - 有道理——你已经有了现成的。如果 ChatGPT 不存在或者你没法用它，你会考虑付钱买 Claude 吗？

46:40-46:41 - Clara: I can do it. - 可能会。

46:44-46:52 - Researcher: How would you rate your likelihood of paying for Claude in the future, say in the next year? 0 to 10, where 0 is definitely won't pay and 10 is definitely will pay. - 对于将来（比如明年）付费买 Claude 的可能性，你会打几分？0 到 10，0 是肯定不付，10 是肯定会付。

46:58-46:59 - Clara: Three. - 3 分。

47:01-47:04 - Researcher: Why a three - what would need to change to make that number higher? - 为什么是 3 分——需要有什么变化才能让这个分数更高？

47:07-47:11 - Clara: It'd have to be better than ChatGPT. I already get for free. - 它必须比 ChatGPT 更好。而且我已经能免费得到（ChatGPT）了。

47:13-47:17 - Researcher: What would "better" look like to you? What would Claude need to do that ChatGPT doesn't? - 对你来说“更好”意味着什么？Claude 需要做到哪些 ChatGPT 做不到的事？

47:18-47:28 - Clara: It had to be faster. It had to integrate into my other tools. My design tools. That would be the kicker. I'd definitely pay for it if it did that. - 它必须更快。它必须能集成到我的其他工具中。我的设计工具。那是关键。如果它能做到这一点，我肯定会付钱。

47:31-47:34 - Researcher: So integration with Figma, Photoshop, those kinds of - 所以是与 Figma、Photoshop 这类……

47:34-47:37 - Clara: And even Canva, anything. Another tool. - 甚至是 Canva，任何东西。另外的工具集成。

47:39-47:44 - Researcher: tools. That's interesting. What's the most satisfying thing about Claude when you do use it? - 工具集成。很有意思。当你使用 Claude 时，最令你满意的地方是什么？

47:50-47:52 - Clara: I think it's really good for copywriting. - 我觉得它在写文案方面真的很好。

47:55-47:57 - Researcher: Better than ChatGPT for copywriting, or about the same? - 在写文案上比 ChatGPT 更好，还是差不多？

48:00-48:03 - Clara: About the same, maybe a little different. - 差不多，也许稍微有一点不同。

48:05-48:08 - Researcher: And what's the least satisfying or most frustrating part of using Claude? - 那使用 Claude 最不满意或最让你沮丧的地方是什么？

48:16-48:18 - Clara: Definitely puts limits in the free version on image generation. - 肯定是免费版对图片生成的限制。

48:20-48:24 - Researcher: What kind of limits - is it daily caps like ChatGPT's free version, or something else? - 什么样的限制——是像 ChatGPT 免费版那样的每日上限，还是别的？

48:25-48:26 - Clara: Yeah. Daily caps. - 是。每日上限。

48:28-48:28 - Researcher: If you had - 如果你……

48:28-48:34 - Clara: And they're even less than ChatGPT was when I was on the no pay program? - 而且限制甚至比我还没付费时的 ChatGPT 还要多。

48:36-48:40 - Researcher: So even stricter than ChatGPT's free version was. If you had a magic - 所以比 ChatGPT 的免费版还要严格。如果你有一根魔法……

48:40-48:40 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

48:43-48:47 - Researcher: wand and could change one thing about Claude right now, what would it be? - 棒，现在能改变 Claude 的一件事，那会是什么？

48:50-48:55 - Clara: It offer more before you pay. Before you have to pay. - 让它在客户付钱之前，先提供更多功能。在必须付费之前。

48:57-49:00 - Researcher: More image generations specifically, or more of everything? - 具体是更多的图片生成，还是全方位的增加？

49:01-49:03 - Clara: Specifically, image generation. - 特别是图片生成。

49:05-49:14 - Researcher: Got it. Let me get some ratings from you on Claude. How satisfied are you with how well Claude completes your tasks? 1 to 5, where 1 is very dissatisfied and 5 is very satisfied. - 明白了。让我从你这里听听对 Claude 的评分。你对 Claude 完成任务的满意度是多少？1 到 5 分，1 是非常不满意，5 是非常满意。

49:22-49:26 - Clara: Probably a four. Three or four. Pretty good. - 大概 4 分吧。3 或 4 分。挺好的。

49:28-49:35 - Researcher: Let's say four. How unique is Claude compared to other similar tools? 1 to 5, where 1 is not unique at all and 5 is very unique. - 就说 4 分吧。与其他类似工具相比，Claude 的独特程度如何？1 到 5 分。

49:42-49:44 - Clara: Three. It's not that unique. - 3 分。没那么独特。

49:46-49:54 - Researcher: And how satisfied are you with Claude's value for money - even though you're on the free version, how do you feel about what you get for free? 1 to 5. - 你对 Claude 的“物有所值”程度有多满意——尽管你用的是免费版，你对免费得到的东西感觉如何？1 到 5 分。

49:57-49:58 - Clara: Three - 3 分。

50:00-50:03 - Researcher: Okay, now let's talk about Grammarly. How often are you using Grammarly? - 好的，现在让我们谈谈 Grammarly。你多久用一次 Grammarly？

50:09-50:10 - Clara: Probably every day. - 大概每天都用。

50:12-50:14 - Researcher: What are you using it for day-to-day? - 你日常用它做什么？

50:25-50:34 - Clara: Mainly email. Like, it checks my email. It checks a lot of my copy. It checks a lot of my copy. Emails, text messages, even Slack messages. - 主要是邮件。比如，它会检查我的邮件。它会检查我的很多文案。检查我的很多文案。电子邮件、短信，甚至是 Slack 消息。

50:36-50:40 - Researcher: So it's running in the background across all those platforms. Are you using the free - 所以它是在所有这些后台平台上运行的。你是在用免费……

50:40-50:41 - Clara: It is. - 它确实在运行。

50:42-50:44 - Researcher: version or a paid version? - 版还是付费版？

50:46-50:46 - Clara: Free - 免费版。

50:48-50:51 - Researcher: Free version, got it. Have you ever paid for Grammarly in the past? - 免费版，明白了。你过去付钱买过 Grammarly 吗？

50:53-50:54 - Clara: No - 没有。

50:56-50:58 - Researcher: What's kept you from upgrading to the paid version? - 是什么让你没有升级到付费版？

51:00-51:03 - Clara: Something I thought about, it's really finances. - 我确实考虑过，主要是财务原因。

51:05-51:08 - Researcher: If finances weren't an issue, would you upgrade? - 如果财务不是问题，你会升级吗？

51:11-51:11 - Clara: Yes. - 会。

51:13-51:17 - Researcher: What would you get from the paid version that you're missing now? - 你能从付费版中得到哪些现在缺失的功能？

51:22-51:29 - Clara: I think you you can use it more. That's what it is. I'm not sure. - 我想你……你可以更深入地使用它。大概是这样。我也不是太确定。

51:32-51:34 - Researcher: You're not totally sure what the paid features are? - 你不太确定付费功能具体有哪些？

51:36-51:37 - Clara: No. - 不确定。

51:39-51:44 - Researcher: But you feel like there are limits on the free version - like it stops you at some point? - 但你觉得免费版有限制——比如在某些点上它会卡住你？

51:47-51:51 - Clara: I feel like it gets more in-depth. It can get more in-depth. With the paid version. - 我觉得付费版会让它变得更专业、更深入。它可以处理得更深入。通过付费版。

51:52-51:55 - Researcher: More in-depth with the grammar and writing suggestions? - 在语法和写作建议方面更深入？

51:55-51:56 - Clara: Yes. - 是。

51:58-52:03 - Researcher: What's your likelihood of paying for Grammarly in the future, say in the next year? 0 to 10. - 未来一年内，你付费订阅 Grammarly 的可能性是多少？0 到 10 分。

52:10-52:14 - Clara: Maybe maybe an eight. - 也许，也许是 8 分。

52:16-52:20 - Researcher: An eight - that's pretty high! What makes it an - 8 分——那挺高的！是什么让它达到……

52:20-52:28 - Clara: Yeah. If I start making money on my side hustle, I would definitely think about seriously doing that. Because I need a lot of help with grammar and spelling. - 对。如果我的副业开始赚钱了，我肯定会严肃考虑这件事。因为我在语法和拼写方面真的需要很多帮助。

52:30-52:33 - Researcher: What kind of help specifically - are there certain mistakes you make repeatedly, - 具体是哪种帮助——是有某些你重复犯的错误，

52:33-52:35 - Clara: I'm just not very good at it. - 我就是不太擅长这些。

52:37-52:38 - Researcher: or is it just general? - 还是比较普遍的问题？

52:40-52:41 - Clara: It's general. - 普遍的问题。

52:44-52:46 - Researcher: What are you most satisfied with about Grammarly? - 关于 Grammarly，你最满意的是什么？

52:58-53:02 - Clara: Overall, that it helps with grammar and spelling. It's one of my weaknesses. So I am very, very happy with something that can do that. - 整体而言，它能帮我处理语法和拼写。这是我的弱项之一。所以我非常、非常高兴有东西能做这个。

53:15-53:18 - Researcher: And what's the most frustrating or least satisfying part of using it? - 那使用它最沮丧或最不满意的地方是什么？

53:23-53:36 - Clara: I don't really have one. Anything really frustrating. I guess that it isn't it it could be more in-depth, which is just a function of paying for it. - 我还真没有觉得沮丧的地方。没有任何特别沮丧的事。我猜大概就是它本可以更深入，但这只是付不付钱的功能区别。

53:38-53:44 - Researcher: So the free version does what it does well, you just wish it went deeper. If you had a magic wand - 所以免费版在它力所能及的范围内做得很好，你只是希望它能更进一步。如果你有一根魔法棒……

53:44-53:45 - Clara: Yes. - 是。

53:47-53:50 - Researcher: and could change one thing about Grammarly, what would it be? - 可以改变 Grammarly 的一件事，是什么？

53:52-53:53 - Clara: It would be free. - 让它免费。

53:56-54:03 - Researcher: Ha! Fair enough. Let me get some final ratings on Grammarly. How satisfied are you with how well it completes its tasks? 1 to 5. - 哈！很公平。让我最后给 Grammarly 打几个分。你对它完成任务的满意度是多少？1 到 5 分。

54:06-54:07 - Clara: Five. - 5 分。

54:09-54:12 - Researcher: How unique is Grammarly compared to other similar tools? 1 to 5. - 与其他相似工具对比，Grammarly 的独特程度如何？1 到 5 分。

54:15-54:16 - Clara: Five. - 5 分。

54:19-54:24 - Researcher: And value for money - even on the free version, how do you feel about what you're getting? 1 to 5. - 还有性价比——即使在免费版，你对自己得到的东西感觉如何？1 到 5 分。

54:26-54:26 - Clara: Five. - 5 分。

54:28-54:43 - Researcher: Okay, we're moving into our final section now. I want to step back and look at the big picture. When you're deciding whether to pay for an AI productivity or design tool - like you did with Relume - what are all the factors you consider? Walk me through everything that goes into that decision. - 好的，我们现在进入最后一部分。我想跳出来看看大局。当你决定是否为一款 AI 生产力或设计工具付钱时——就像你对 Relume 所做的那样——你会考虑哪些因素？请详细告诉我所有进入这一决策的过程。

54:47-54:55 - Clara: How fast it is, how efficient it is, how good it is at the task, if it's something I need, if it'll save me time - 它有多快，效率有多高，它在处理这项任务时表现多好，它是否是我需要的东西，它是否能帮我节省时间……

54:57-54:58 - Researcher: Those are - 那些是……

54:59-55:02 - Clara: and how much it is. How much I can afford. - 还有价格。我也得能负担得起。

55:05-55:16 - Researcher: great. Let me make sure I have them: speed, efficiency, how good it is at the task, whether you actually need it, time savings, and affordability. Any others? - 太棒了。让我确认一下我记下来了：速度、效率、任务完成质量、必要性、节省的时间以及负担能力。还有别的吗？

55:17-55:19 - Clara: No. That's about it. - 没有了。大概就这些。

55:21-55:27 - Researcher: Let's dig into a couple of these. When you say "how good it is at the task" - how do you actually evaluate that before paying? - 让我们深入探讨其中几个。当你提到“对任务的完成质量”时——在付钱之前，你实际上是如何评估这一点的？

55:32-55:45 - Clara: Accuracy, um, how quick it is to pick up on what I am actually asking for. How many times I have to, like, rephrase to get it to do what I was expecting it to do. - 准确性，嗯，它领会我实际要求的速度有多快。我需要重申多少次，才能让它按照我的预期目标来完成任务。

55:47-55:52 - Researcher: So it's about how well it understands you on the first try versus needing multiple attempts to get it right? - 所以它是关于它第一次理解你的能力，而不是需要尝试多次才能弄对？

55:53-55:54 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

55:56-56:02 - Researcher: Can you give me a specific example - maybe when you were testing Relume or another tool - where you noticed this difference? - 你能给我一个具体的例子吗——也许是当你测试 Relume 或其他工具时——你注意到了这种差异的地方？

56:05-56:58 - Clara: Yeah. It actually with Relume, I I don't even have to think about, like, okay. How am I gonna ask it for what I want? It it pretty much will give me what I'm asking for, If it doesn't, it's so easy to get it to where you want it to go because now it it integrates into a design tool where I can just edit it myself, or they have all these different sections that you can use to change or you just hit rewrite copy. And it just does it in two seconds. Um, so you don't really have to think about how can I say this in a different way so it will know what I want? That that's what's better about it. Like, with ChatGPT, sometimes you have to ask it to do the same thing ten different ways before it gets it right. - 是的。实际上用 Relume 的时候，我甚至不需要去思考，比如，“好吧，我该怎么向它表达我的需求？”它基本上就能直接给我想要的东西。如果它没给对，也很容易调整到你想要的样子，因为现在它集成到了设计工具中，我可以自己直接编辑，或者他们有很多不同的组件板块供你更换，或者你只需点击“重写文案”。它两秒钟就能搞定。嗯，所以你真的不需要思考该用什么不同的方式去表达，好让它明白我的意思。这就是它更好的地方。就像用 ChatGPT，有时你得用十种不同的方式问同一件事，它才能搞对。

57:00-57:14 - Researcher: That's really helpful. So with ChatGPT you're sometimes rephrasing the same request ten times, but with Relume it just gets it. Now let me ask - of all those factors you mentioned, can you rank them for me? What's most important to least important when deciding to pay? - 这非常有参考价值。所以用 ChatGPT 时你有时要重复改写同一个请求十次，但用 Relume 它就能直接理解。现在我想问一下——在你提到的所有这些因素中，你能帮我排个序吗？在决定付费时，从最重要到最不重要的因素是什么？

57:26-57:27 - Clara: How fast it is, how efficient it is, how well it does the task, and affordability. - 速度有多快、效率有多高、任务完成得有多好，以及价格是否实惠。

57:30-57:33 - Researcher: And where do "whether you need it" and "time savings" fit in that ranking? - 那么“你是否需要它”和“节省时间”在这个排名中排在哪里？

57:35-57:44 - Clara: Oh, whether I need it is kinda number one. No sense in paying for it if I'm not gonna need it. Yeah, that's number one. - 哦，“我是否需要它”差不多是第一位的。如果我不需要，那就没意义付钱。是的，那是第一位的。

57:46-57:52 - Researcher: So it sounds like: 1) Do I need it, 2) Speed, 3) Efficiency, 4) How well it does the task, and 5) Affordability. Is that the order? - 所以听起来排序是：1) 我是否需要它，2) 速度，3) 效率，4) 任务完成质量，以及 5) 价格实惠。是这个顺序吗？

57:56-57:57 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

57:59-58:06 - Researcher: Interesting that affordability is last. Does that mean if a tool checks all the other boxes, you'll find a way to pay for it regardless of price? - 有意思的是，价格实惠排在最后。这是否意味着如果一个工具满足了所有其他条件，无论价格如何，你都会想办法付费？

58:10-58:21 - Clara: I mean, not an outlandish price, but if it's a reasonable price, yeah, if I really, really need it, I'll make it work. Because a lot of times, these tools end up saving you money in the long run. - 我是说，不能是那种离谱的价格，但如果是合理的价格，是的，如果我真的、真的很需要它，我会想办法搞定。因为很多时候，从长远来看，这些工具最终是在帮你省钱。

58:24-58:28 - Researcher: How so? Can you give me an example of how a tool has saved you money? - 怎么说？你能给我举个例子，说明某个工具是如何帮你省钱的吗？

58:32-58:48 - Clara: Well, it saves me time, which in in in essence saves me money. Like Gamma, it creates presentations in about you know, ten minutes, and it could have taken ten hours to create a presentation. - 嗯，它节省了我的时间，本质上就是节省了我的钱。比如 Gamma，它在大约十分钟内就能创建出演示文稿，而以前创建一个演示文稿可能需要十个小时。

58:49-58:52 - Researcher: That's a huge time difference. When you say - 那是巨大的时间差。当你提到

58:52-58:53 - Clara: Huge. - 巨大。

58:55-59:01 - Researcher: "reasonable price" versus "outlandish" - what's the threshold? Like, what dollar amount would make you think "that's too much"? - “合理的价格”对比“离谱的价格”——门槛是多少？比如，什么金额会让你觉得“那太贵了”？

59:06-59:10 - Clara: Probably, like, a hundred dollars a month. That is too much no matter what it does. - 大概是每个月 100 美元吧。无论它能做什么，那都太贵了。

59:12-59:20 - Researcher: Got it. So under a hundred is reasonable territory. Now, shifting gears - how do you usually discover new AI tools in the first place? Where are you hearing about them? - 明白了。所以 100 美元以下属于合理范围。现在换个话题——你最初通常是如何发现新的 AI 工具的？你从哪里听说它们的？

59:24-59:32 - Clara: Friends, coworkers, design forums, ads, - 朋友、同事、设计论坛、广告。

59:34-59:40 - Researcher: Which of those channels has led you to actually try the most tools? Like where did Relume come from, where did Claude come from? - 在这些渠道中，哪一个促使你实际尝试了最多的工具？比如 Relume 是从哪来的，Claude 是从哪来的？

59:49-01:00:03 - Clara: Claude was an ad. And Relume was actually I was watching I was watching a design tutorial. By a guy who I respect his work, and he actually was talking about Relume and how that's one of the AI tools he uses that he actually finds useful. And I thought I'd check it out, and I agreed. - Claude 是通过广告。Relume 实际上是我在看设计教程。是一个我很尊敬其作品的设计师，他正好在谈论 Relume，说这是他发现的真正有用的 AI 工具之一。我觉得我也该去看看，结果我也认同。

01:00:05-01:00:09 - Researcher: So a trusted designer's recommendation carried a lot of weight. What about ChatGPT - where did that one come - 所以受信任的设计师推荐非常有分量。那么 ChatGPT 呢——那个最初是从哪里

01:00:09-01:00:10 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

01:00:11-01:00:12 - Researcher: from originally? - 知道的？

01:00:18-01:00:20 - Clara: Coworker and the news. - 同事和新闻。

01:00:23-01:00:28 - Researcher: When you see ads for AI tools like Claude, what makes you actually click and try versus just scroll past? - 当你看到像 Claude 这样的 AI 工具广告时，是什么让你真正去点击并尝试，而不是直接滑过去？

01:00:29-01:00:31 - Clara: It doesn't hurt to try. - 试一下也没什么坏处。

01:00:32-01:00:39 - Researcher: Fair! Last question - do you have a mental budget for AI tools? Like, "I can spend X dollars per month total on all AI subscriptions"? - 也是！最后一个问题——你对 AI 工具有一个心理预算吗？比如，“我每个月在所有 AI 订阅上总共可以花 X 美元”？

01:00:41-01:00:42 - Clara: Yes. - 是的。

01:00:44-01:00:45 - Researcher: What's that number? - 那个数字是多少？

01:00:49-01:01:02 - Clara: Twenty five dollars a month. Twenty five dollars a month. - 每个月 25 美元。每个月 25 美元。

01:01:04-01:01:21 - Researcher: Perfect, that's really helpful to know. Clara, we've covered everything I needed to ask you today - thank you so much for being so generous with your time and insights. Your perspective on these tools, especially how you use them in hospitality marketing design, has been incredibly valuable. I really appreciate you walking me through all of this! - 太棒了，这很有帮助。 Clara，我们今天已经涵盖了所有我需要问的内容——非常感谢你慷慨地分享你的时间和见解。你对这些工具的看法，特别是你如何在酒店营销设计中使用它们，非常有价值。我真的很感谢你带我了解了这一切！

01:01:27-01:01:30 - Clara: Great. Are we done? - 太好了。我们结束了吗？

01:01:32-01:01:37 - Researcher: Yes, we're all done! Thanks again for your time today, Clara. Have a great rest of your day! - 是的，全部结束了！再次感谢你今天的时间，Clara。祝你今天过得愉快！

01:01:37-01:01:38 - Clara: You too. - 你也是。

01:01:40-01:01:41 - Researcher: Take care! - 保重！