00:02-00:23 - Researcher: Hey there! I'm Trooly, and I'm really excited to chat with you today. This conversation will take about 30 minutes, and I'd love to hear your thoughts and experiences around AI chat assistants. Before we dive into the main topic, could you please give me a brief self-introduction? I'd love to get to know you a bit better. For example, you could tell me your age, occupation, and hobbies — or anything else you think would help me understand you better. - 嘿，你好！我是 Trooly，很高兴今天能和你聊天。 这次对话大约需要 30 分钟，我很想听听你对 AI 聊天助手的想法和经验。在深入探讨主选话题之前，你能先做个简单的自我介绍吗？我想多了解你一点。例如，你可以告诉我你的年龄、职业、爱好，或者任何你认为能帮助我更好了解你的信息。

00:25-00:39 - Julian: Yes. My name is Julian. I am thirty-five years old. I live in San Diego, California. I like to run my own business, take care of my mom, and watch a lot of television. - 好的。我叫 Julian。我今年三十五岁。我住在加利福尼亚州的圣地亚哥。我喜欢经营自己的生意，照顾我母亲，还喜欢看很多电视节目。

00:41-00:51 - Researcher: Nice to meet you, Julian! Running your own business while taking care of your mom sounds like you've got a lot on your plate. What kind of business do you run, if you don't mind me asking? - 很高兴认识你，Julian！一边经营自己的生意一边照顾母亲，听起来你有很多事情要忙。 如果不介意我问的话，你经营的是什么样的业务？

00:51-00:55 - Julian: I run an ecommerce business selling imported products from Brazil. - 我经营一家电子商务公司，销售从巴西进口的产品。

00:58-01:06 - Researcher: That's interesting! So you're bridging Brazil and the US market. How long have you been running this business? And just out of curiosity, what's - 真有趣！所以你是在连接巴西和美国市场。你做这行多久了？ 另外出于好奇，你的……

01:07-01:10 - Julian: I I've been doing it for ten years. - 我已经做了十年了。

01:12-01:27 - Researcher: Ten years - that's impressive! You've really built something solid there. Now let's shift gears a bit. Could you tell me about your current monthly income? I know it can be a personal question, but it really helps me understand the context better. - 十年——真令人印象深刻！你确实建立了一些稳固的基础。 现在让我们转换一下话题。你能告诉我你目前的月收入吗？我知道这可能是一个私人问题，但它确实能帮我更好地理解背景。

01:28-01:30 - Julian: Ten thousand a month. - 每月一万美元。

01:32-01:44 - Researcher: Got it, $10,000 a month. Thanks for sharing that. Now I'm curious - are you currently using any AI chat assistants? Things like ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, or others? If so, which ones, and are you on free trials or have you paid for any subscriptions? - 明白了，每月 10,000 美元。谢谢你的分享。 现在我很想知道——你目前在使用任何 AI 聊天助手吗？比如 ChatGPT、Claude、Gemini 或者其他的？如果有，是哪些？你是在试用免费版，还是支付了订阅费用？

01:49-02:07 - Julian: Yeah. So I use them almost daily. I like to use Gemini because I could quickly access it on my phone through a quick task button on the side of my phone. I also like using Perplexity and Microsoft Copilot. I do have a subscription to Copilot Pro. - 是的。我几乎每天都使用它们。我喜欢用 Gemini，因为我可以通过手机侧面的快速任务按钮快速访问它。我也喜欢用 Perplexity 和 Microsoft Copilot。我确实订阅了 Copilot Pro。

02:10-02:24 - Researcher: Interesting mix! So Gemini for quick access on your phone, Perplexity, and you're actually paying for Copilot Pro. What made you decide to pay for Copilot Pro specifically, when you're using the other ones for free? What does it give you that the free versions don't? - 有趣的组合！手机上快速访问用 Gemini，还有 Perplexity，而且你实际上在为 Copilot Pro 付费。 当你正在免税使用其他工具时，是什么让你决定专门为 Copilot Pro 付费的？它为你提供了哪些免费版本没有的功能？

02:24-02:41 - Julian: So I like having Copilot Pro because it was the cheapest option for the moment, and it was part of a market research project that I did a little while back. So I kept using the subscription for research purposes. - 我喜欢 Copilot Pro 是因为它是目前最便宜的选择，而且它是我前段时间参加的一个市场研究项目的一部分。所以我为了研究目的就一直保留着这个订阅。

02:44-02:56 - Researcher: Ah, so it started as part of a market research project and you just kept it going. That's interesting! When you say it was the cheapest option - how much are you paying for Copilot Pro exactly? And what were you comparing it against at the time? - 啊，所以它是从一个市场研究项目开始的，然后你就一直续费了。真有意思！ 你说它是最便宜的选择时——你具体为 Copilot Pro 支付多少钱？当时你是在和哪些产品做对比？

02:57-03:06 - Julian: So it's about twenty dollars a month. And I'm comparing it with the other popular ones that I'm using, is Perplexity and Google Gemini. - 大约是每月二十美元。我当时正在将它与我正在使用的其他热门产品进行比较，即 Perplexity 和 Google Gemini。

03:08-03:17 - Researcher: Got it, $20 a month. So Perplexity and Gemini - were those more expensive when you were comparing, or did they have different pricing structures that didn't work as well for you? - 明白了，每月 20 美元。那么 Perplexity 和 Gemini——在你对比的时候，它们是更贵一些吗？还是说它们的定价结构不适合你？

03:19-03:25 - Julian: So they were a little bit more expensive, and at the same time, I like using Copilot because it works well with Edge. - 它们确实稍微贵一点。同时，我也喜欢用 Copilot，因为它能很好地与 Edge 浏览器配合。

03:30-03:43 - Researcher: Makes sense - the integration with Edge is a nice bonus. Before you started paying for AI products like Copilot, had you paid for other digital subscriptions or services? Things like Netflix, Spotify, software tools for your business, anything like that? - 明白了——与 Edge 的集成是个不错的加分项。 在你开始为 Copilot 之类的 AI 产品付费之前，你是否支付过其他数字订阅或服务？比如 Netflix、Spotify、用于业务的软件工具，或者类似的任何东西？

03:46-03:55 - Julian: Yes. So I currently have a Shopify for my ecommerce website. I also subscribe to Netflix, Peacock Television, and Sling Television. - 是的。我目前为我的电商网站购买了 Shopify 服务。我还订阅了 Netflix、Peacock 电视和 Sling 电视。

03:57-04:11 - Researcher: So you already had a habit of paying for digital services before AI came along. When you think about those subscriptions - Shopify, Netflix, Peacock, Sling - and now Copilot Pro, do they feel similar to you in terms of value? Or does paying for an AI assistant feel different somehow? - 所以在 AI 出现之前，你已经养成了为数字服务付费的习惯。 当你思考这些订阅——Shopify、Netflix、Peacock、Sling——以及现在的 Copilot Pro 时，你觉得它们在价值方面相似吗？或者说，为 AI 助手付费感觉会有所不同吗？

04:32-04:36 - Julian: I like paying for the AI system because it strips away a lot of time and resources to really delve in on topics and generate reports and possibly export them to other formats. Let's say CSV files, Excel spreadsheets, - 我愿意为 AI 系统付费，因为它省去了很多深入研究课题、生成报告，甚至可能将它们导出为其他格式（比如 CSV 文件、Excel 表格）所需的时间和资源。

04:39-04:56 - Researcher: So the AI feels more like a productivity tool that saves you actual work time - generating reports, converting formats, that kind of thing. That's pretty different from entertainment subscriptions. Can you walk me through a specific example of something you recently used Copilot for in your business? Like what was the task and how did it help you? - 所以 AI 给你的感觉更像是一个生产力工具，能为你节省实际的工作时间——生成报告、转换格式之类的。这确实和娱乐类订阅很不一样。 你能给我举一个你最近在业务中使用 Copilot 的具体例子吗？比如具体是什么任务，它是如何帮助你的？

04:57-05:45 - Julian: So I like using my phone a lot for my business, especially because I sell products. So we have to understand that selling products on the phone is important. So I always try to understand and conceptualize how the purchasing process works on the phone. So I did a comparison of the latest iPhone with previous models to gain more insight on the different specifications, expert recommendations, product reviews, generated some reports, took a little while. But I was able to use Copilot to assist me and gain a better opinion. Before I made any decisions. - 我在做生意时非常依赖手机，尤其是因为我卖产品。我们必须意识到，在手机上销售产品非常重要。所以我总是尝试理解和构思手机上的购买流程是如何运作的。因此，我通过对比最新款 iPhone 与旧款机型，来获得关于不同规格、专家推荐、产品评论的更多见解，并生成了一些报告。这个过程花了点时间，但我能够使用 Copilot 来辅助我，在做决定之前获得更好的意见。

05:50-06:09 - Researcher: That's a really concrete example - you were researching iPhone specs to understand the mobile shopping experience better for your customers. So Copilot helped you pull together comparisons and reviews faster than doing it manually. Now let me ask you this: Over the past three months, how many different AI products have you actually paid for? Is it just Copilot Pro, or are there others? - 这是一个非常具体的例子——你正在研究 iPhone 的规格，以便为你的客户更好地理解移动端购物体验。所以 Copilot 帮你比手动操作更快地汇总了对比信息和评论。 现在我想问：在过去的三个月里，你实际付费购买了多少种不同的 AI 产品？只有 Copilot Pro 吗，还是还有其他的？

06:11-06:16 - Julian: I was using Perplexity Pro for a little while last year before the year ended. - 去年年底前有一段时间我用了 Perplexity Pro。

06:19-06:30 - Researcher: So you had Perplexity Pro before, but you're not paying for it now - just Copilot Pro at the moment? And with Copilot Pro, is this your first time paying for it, or have you already renewed the subscription a few times? - 所以你以前用过 Perplexity Pro，但现在没在付钱了——目前只付 Copilot Pro 的钱？ 关于 Copilot Pro，这是你第一次付费，还是已经续费几次了？

06:30-06:34 - Julian: I have already renewed the subscription a few times. - 我已经续费好几次了。

06:36-06:42 - Researcher: Got it. So how many times have you renewed it so far? Like are we talking 2-3 renewals, or has it been going for longer? - 明白了。那你目前大约续费了多少次？我们说的是两三次，还是更久？

06:44-06:45 - Julian: Two to three. - 两到三次。

06:48-07:00 - Researcher: Okay, so you've been with Copilot Pro for a few months now. You mentioned you're paying monthly at $20. Have you ever considered switching to an annual plan, or do you prefer keeping it month-to-month? What works better for you about that? - 好的，所以你使用 Copilot Pro 已经有几个月了。 你提到你是按月支付 20 美元。你有没有考虑过切换到年度计划，或者你更喜欢按月续订？按月续订对你来说有什么好处？

07:00-07:11 - Julian: I want to keep it month to month until maybe I can be persuaded to go back to perplexity or try a different AI companion, let's say, ChatGPT. - 我想先保持按月续订，直到也许有人能说服我换回 Perplexity，或者尝试其他的 AI 伴侣，比如 ChatGPT。

07:14-07:28 - Researcher: Interesting - so you're keeping your options open. Month-to-month gives you flexibility to switch if something better comes along. What would it take for Perplexity or ChatGPT to persuade you to switch? Like what would they need to offer that Copilot isn't giving you right now? - 有意思——所以你保持着各种选择。按月续订给了你灵活性，如果出现了更好的东西，你可以随时切换。 什么样的情况能让 Perplexity 或 ChatGPT 说服你切换？比如它们需要提供哪些 Copilot 目前没能给你的功能？

07:31-07:43 - Julian: I would say just consistently asking questions and seeing the responses from multiple platforms. And then eventually, see how one outweighs the other in performance and delivery. - 我觉得就是通过不断提问，查看多个平台的回复。然后最终看其中一个在性能和交付方面如何超过另一个。

07:46-08:03 - Researcher: So you're basically testing them side-by-side as you use them, seeing which one gives you better answers over time. That's pretty methodical. If you could design your ideal payment model for AI - would you still want monthly? Or would something like pay-per-use, or credits, or annual make more sense for how you actually use these tools? - 所以你基本上是边用边并排测试它们，看长远来看哪个能给你更好的答案。这方法挺严谨的。 如果你可以设计理想的 AI 付费模式——你还会想要包月吗？或者对于你实际使用这些工具的方式来说，按次付费、积分制或年费模式会不会更有意义？

08:03-08:07 - Julian: I am definitely open to that concept, pay per use or credits. - 我肯定对这个概念持开放态度，按次付费或积分制。

08:09-08:15 - Researcher: Pay-per-use or credits sounds appealing to you. What makes that more attractive than the flat monthly fee you're paying now? - 按次付费或积分制听起来对你很有吸引力。比起你现在支付的固定月费，为什么这更有吸引力？

08:16-08:28 - Julian: Well, maybe some features might work better in one companion versus another. And it's worthwhile to pay to have credits or pay per use trials. - 嗯，也许某些功能在某一个 AI 伴侣中表现更好。为了保留积分或按次试用而付费是值得的。

08:31-08:48 - Researcher: Ah, so you're thinking you could spread credits across different AI tools - use Copilot for some tasks, Perplexity for others, ChatGPT for something else, depending on what each does best? That's smart. Right now with your $20month for Copilot - is that your total AI spending, or are you paying for anything else AI-related this month? - 啊，所以你的想法是你可以把积分分配到不同的 AI 工具上——根据各家所长，用 Copilot 做某些任务，用 Perplexity 做另一些，用 ChatGPT 做其他的？ 这很聪明。目前你花在 Copilot 上的每月 20 美元——这是你全部的 AI 开支吗？或者这个月你还在为其他 AI 相关的东西买单吗？

08:51-08:57 - Julian: Not that I could think of. Most AI services are free, let's say, like Grammarly. In this case. - 我想不出了。大多数 AI 服务都是免费的，比如说 Grammarly。

08:59-09:11 - Researcher: Right, Grammarly has AI features but you're using the free version. So $20 total for AI this month. How often are you actually using AI tools in a typical week? Like if you had to estimate - is it a few times a week, daily, multiple times a day? - 对，Grammarly 有 AI 功能，但你用的是免费版。所以这个月 AI 支出总计 20 美元。 在典型的一周里，你实际使用 AI 工具的频率有多高？如果你预估一下——是一周几次，每天一次，还是每天多次？

09:23-09:27 - Julian: Going back to the last question, I forgot to mention that Shopify has a sidekick artificial intelligence. - 回到上一个问题，我忘了提到 Shopify 有一个 Sidekick 人工智能。

09:29-09:36 - Researcher: Oh interesting! So Shopify Sidekick - is that included in your regular Shopify subscription, or is that an add-on cost on top? - 哦，真有趣！那 Shopify Sidekick 是包含在你定期的 Shopify 订阅里的，还是需要额外付费的插件？

09:38-09:39 - Julian: It's included in the subscription. - 包含在订阅里了。

09:42-09:56 - Researcher: Got it, so it's bundled in. But in terms of AI tools you're specifically paying extra for, it's still just the $20 for Copilot Pro. Back to my question - in a typical week, how many times are you using AI tools? Whether it's Copilot, Gemini, Perplexity, or Shopify Sidekick? - 明白了，那是捆绑在一起的。但就你专门额外付费的 AI 工具而言，目前仍然只有 Copilot Pro 的 20 美元。 回到刚才的问题——在典型的一周里，你使用 AI 工具多少次？不管是 Copilot、Gemini、Perplexity 还是 Shopify Sidekick？

10:01-10:09 - Julian: Multiple times a week. I even replace my regular search habits with AI search or overview. - 一周多次。我甚至用 AI 搜索或概览取代了我常规的搜索习惯。

10:14-10:31 - Researcher: So it's become your default way of searching - you're reaching for AI instead of traditional Google searches now. That's a big shift in behavior. When you think back to Copilot Pro specifically - from the time you first tried it to when you actually decided "okay, I'm going to pay for this," how long was that? Days, weeks, months? - 所以它已经成了你的默认搜索方式——你现在倾向于寻找 AI 而不是传统的谷歌搜索。这种行为转变很大。 回想一下 Copilot Pro——从你第一次尝试它到你真正决定“好吧，我要为此付钱”，这中间隔了多久？几天，几周，还是几个月？

10:37-11:01 - Julian: Well, it began with joining a market research study that required me to subscribe to Copilot Pro. And then I just felt like keeping it for the contrast. I prefer Google to do searches on the Internet but having the Copilot Pro Companion handy is a way to explore what Microsoft has to offer alongside my favorite search engine, that is Google again. - 呃，它是从参加一个要求订阅 Copilot Pro 的市场研究开始的。之后我觉得可以留着它做对比。我更喜欢用谷歌在互联网上搜索，但手头有一个 Copilot Pro 助手是探索微软产品的一种方式，可以和我最喜欢的搜索工具（又是谷歌）配合使用。

11:05-11:20 - Researcher: So you didn't really have a traditional trial period - the research study got you to subscribe right away, and then you just decided to keep it after the study ended. How long ago did that research study end? Like when did it shift from "I have this for the study" to "I'm choosing to keep paying for this myself"? - 所以你并没有真正经历传统的试用期——研究项目让你立即订阅了，然后你决定在研究结束后继续使用。 那个研究项目大约是什么时候结束的？就是说，它什么时候从“为了研究而拥有”变成了“我自己选择继续付钱”？

11:20-11:22 - Julian: About two, three months ago. - 大约两三个月前。

11:26-11:53 - Researcher: So you've been paying out of your own pocket for 2-3 months now since the study ended. That lines up with the 2-3 renewals you mentioned. Let me shift gears a bit. Overall, what's your attitude toward paying for AI products? Would you say: 1) AI is essential to your lifework, you're willing to keep paying; 2) It's very valuable, happy to pay as long as it's useful; 3) Paying is acceptable but you're cautious about it; 4) Not really willing to pay unless necessary or very cheap; or 5) You wouldn't consider paying at all? - 所以自研究结束以来，你已经自掏腰包支付了两三个月了。这和你提到的两三次续费相吻合。 转换一下话题。总的来说，你对为 AI 产品付费的态度是什么？你会说是：1）AI 对你的生活/工作至关重要，你愿意一直付钱；2）它非常有价值，只要有用就乐意付钱；3）付钱是可以接受的，但你会很谨慎；4）除非必要或非常便宜，否则不太愿意付钱；或者 5）根本不会考虑付钱？

12:00-12:11 - Julian: I would align with more three and four. Paying is acceptable, but I'm cautious about it. And not really willing to pay unless necessary or very cheap. I'm in between those two. - 我更倾向于第三和第四种。付钱是可以接受的，但我很谨慎。而且除非必要或非常便宜，否则不太愿意付钱。我介于这两者之间。

12:15-12:31 - Researcher: That makes sense - you're cautious and price-sensitive, but you ARE paying for Copilot Pro, so there's clearly something keeping you subscribed even though you're hesitant about AI spending in general. What makes Copilot Pro feel "necessary" enough to keep paying, when you're generally reluctant to spend on AI? - 这说得通——你很谨慎且对价格敏感，但你确实在为 Copilot Pro 付费，所以很明显，尽管你对 AI 支出整体持犹豫态度，但还是有一些东西让你保持了订阅。 是什么让 Copilot Pro 显得足够“必要”从而让你继续付钱，即便你通常不愿意花钱在 AI 上？

12:31-12:57 - Julian: I value very deeply the research reports. That Copilot Pro generates and its ability to gather all these references sources of data, unlike other ones, but they take it to the next level. And, uh, provide more context. I think that's necessary in some instances. And I value that greatly. - 我非常看重研究报告。Copilot Pro 生成报告以及收集所有这些参考资料数据源的能力，和其他工具不同，它们把它提升到了一个新的水平。而且，呃，它能提供更多的背景信息。我认为这在某些情况下是必要的。我对此非常看重。

12:59-13:15 - Researcher: The research reports with all those references and extra context - that's the killer feature for you. It sounds like it goes deeper than what the free tools give you. Can you give me a specific example of a recent research report you had Copilot generate? What was the topic and what did you do with that report afterward? - 带有完整参考资料和额外背景的研究报告——这是对你而言的核心功能。听起来它比免费工具提供的要更深入。 你能给我举一个最近让 Copilot 生成研究报告的具体例子吗？主题是什么，事后你用那份报告做了什么？

13:15-13:40 - Julian: So like I mentioned before, I did one about comparing the latest iPhone with previous models because I wanted to shop around for a new phone. And at the time, the, um, tablets or iPads were on sale. And Apple Intelligence was also something that I was never introduced to. So with the research report, I was able to gain some intelligence about it. - 就像我之前提到的，我做了一个最新 iPhone 和旧款机型的对比报告，因为我想买部新手机。当时，平板电脑或 iPad 正在打折。而且 Apple Intelligence（苹果智能）也是我从未接触过的东西。通过这份研究报告，我能够获得一些关于它的信息。

13:43-13:58 - Researcher: So you were making a real purchasing decision - whether to get the new iPhone or maybe an iPad while they were on sale, and you wanted to understand what Apple Intelligence actually offered. Did that research report from Copilot actually influence what you ended up buying? Or help you decide to wait? - 所以你是在做一个真正的购买决定——是买新 iPhone 还是趁打折买个 iPad，并且你想了解 Apple Intelligence 到底提供了什么。 这份来自 Copilot 的研究报告最终是否影响了你的购买决策？或者是帮你决定再等等？

13:59-14:00 - Julian: To help me decide to wait, - 帮我决定再等等。

14:03-14:38 - Researcher: Interesting - so the report actually saved you from making a purchase you might have regretted. That's pretty tangible value right there. Let me ask you this: Looking at different AI capabilities, which three would you be most willing to pay for? I'll list them out: content creation (writing, translation, copywriting), information summarizing (long documents, meetings), learning assistance (explaining concepts, answering questions), work efficiency (automation, templates), data analysis and insights, creative brainstorming, decision support (comparing options, risk analysis), programming help, or personal assistant features (planning, reminders, task management). What are your top three? - 有趣——所以这份报告实际上帮你避免了可能令你后悔的购买。这就是很实在的价值了。 让我问你这个：观察不同的 AI 能力，你最愿意为哪三种付费？我列举一下：内容创作（写作、翻译、文案）、信息摘要（长文档、会议）、学习辅助（概念讲解、答疑）、工作效率（自动化、模板）、数据分析与洞察、创意脑暴、决策支持（方案对比、风险分析）、编程辅助，或者个人助理功能（规划、提醒、任务管理）。哪三个是你的前三名？

14:41-14:43 - Julian: Give me a moment. Okay? - 给我一点时间。好吗？

14:46-14:47 - Researcher: Take your time. - 没问题。

14:48-14:51 - Julian: Can you list those out for me again? - 你能再帮我列一遍吗？

14:53-15:17 - Researcher: Sure! Here are the options: 1. Content creation - writing, translation, copywriting 2. Information summarizing - long documents, meetings 3. Learning assistance - explaining concepts, answering questions 4. Work efficiency - automation, templates 5. Data analysis and insights 6. Creative brainstorming 7. Decision support - comparing options, risk analysis 8. Programming help 9. Personal assistant - planning, reminders, task management Which three are you most willing to pay for? - 当然！选项有： 1. 内容创作 - 写作、翻译、文案 2. 信息摘要 - 长文档、会议 3. 学习辅助 - 概念讲解、答疑 4. 工作效率 - 自动化、模板 5. 数据分析与洞察 6. 创意脑暴 7. 决策支持 - 方案对比、风险分析 8. 编程辅助 9. 个人助理 - 规划、提醒、任务管理 你最愿意为哪三个付费？

15:33-15:36 - Julian: Definitely three five, and eight. - 绝对是 3、5 和 8。

15:38-15:48 - Researcher: So learning assistance, data analysis and insights, and programming help - those are your top three. Why are those three the most valuable to you? What makes them worth paying for compared to the others? - 即学习辅助、数据分析与洞察以及编程辅助——这是你的前三名。 为什么这三个对你来说最有价值？相比其他选项，是什么让它们值得付钱？

15:50-15:56 - Julian: I can see myself wanting to use those services more often than the other choices. - 相比其他选项，我能预见到自己会更频繁地想要使用这些服务。

15:58-16:12 - Researcher: You'd use them more frequently. That makes sense - frequency drives value for you. Thinking about your business and daily work, can you give me an example of how you use each of those three? Like a recent time you needed learning assistance, or data analysis, or programming help? - 你会更频繁地使用它们。明白了——频率对你来说是价值的驱动因素。 想想你的业务和日常工作，你能各举一个使用这三个功能的例子吗？比如最近一次你需要学习辅助、或数据分析、或编程辅助的时候？

16:15-17:08 - Julian: So I've definitely needed to drop coding. To place on the back end of my website theme. To accept payments. On my website versus the traditional checkout. Method and that is why programming would be useful for me Learning assistance is a daily requirement for me. When it comes to asking any question. Whether it's personal or work related, And data analysis is great for staying competitive. And understanding trends and seeing where it's worth investing towards and where it's not worth investing towards. - 好的，我确实需要写一些代码。放在我网站主题的后端。为了在我的网站上接受支付，而不是用传统的结账方式。这就是为什么编程对我很有用。学习辅助是我每天的刚需，当涉及到问任何问题时，无论是个人还是工作相关的。数据分析对于保持竞争力非常重要。这有助于理解趋势，看哪里值得投资，哪里不值得。

17:08-17:16 - Researcher: Those are really concrete use cases - you're literally using programming help to modify your payment flow, learning assistance as your daily question-answering tool, and data analysis to make investment decisions about your business. When you say data analysis helps you understand trends and where to invest - can you walk me through a specific example? Like what kind of data were you analyzing recently and what decision did it help you make? - 这些是非常具体的使用场景——你真的在用编程辅助修改支付流程，用学习辅助作为日常问答工具，用数据分析来为你的业务做投资决策。 当你提到数据分析帮你理解趋势和确定投资方向时——你能详细举个例子吗？比如你最近分析了什么数据，它帮你做了什么决策？

17:17-17:47 - Julian: So I'm a big search engine optimization connoisseur. So I like to learn about new waves, or new trends maybe keyword phrases, or how my competitors are gaining more traffic to their websites versus mine. Maybe any tools they might be using, whether it's backlinks. Blog posts, links of that nature, among other factors, maybe domain score, authority score, - 我非常精通搜索引擎优化（SEO）。所以我喜欢了解新浪潮、新趋势，也许是关键词短语，或者我的竞争对手是如何比我获得更多网站流量的。也许是他们使用的任何工具，无论是外链、博客文章、这类性质的链接，还有其他因素，比如域名评分、权威分值。

17:52-18:11 - Researcher: So you're using AI to analyze SEO competitive intelligence - looking at what keywords competitors rank for, their backlink profiles, domain authority, traffic sources. When you ask an AI tool to analyze this kind of SEO data, are you feeding it raw data you've pulled from tools like Ahrefs or SEMrush? Or are you asking it to go find and compare that information for you? - 所以你正在使用 AI 分析 SEO 竞争情报——查看竞争对手的关键词排名、外链概况、域名权威度、流量来源。 当你让 AI 工具分析这类 SEO 数据时，你是把从 Ahrefs 或 SEMrush 等工具中提取的原始数据喂给它吗？还是说你让它直接去帮你查找并对比这些信息？

18:13-18:22 - Julian: So I like to start with the AI and then see what the other tools will have to show me because I already have experience using them. - 我喜欢先从 AI 开始，然后再去看看其他工具能显示什么，因为我已经有使用那些工具的经验了。

18:25-18:42 - Researcher: So AI is your starting point now - you get the initial analysis and direction from the AI, then you go validate or dig deeper with your specialized SEO tools. That's a shift in workflow. What does the AI give you in that first pass that makes it worth starting there instead of going straight to Ahrefs or SEMrush like you used to? - 所以 AI 现在是你的起步点了——你从 AI 那里获得初步分析和方向，然后用专门的 SEO 工具去验证或深入挖掘。 这是一次工作流程的转变。在第一次尝试中，AI 提供了什么让你觉得值得先从它开始，而不是像以前那样直接用 Ahrefs 或 SEMrush？

18:50-18:54 - Julian: I would say the idea of being able to implement a personal assistant, maybe to do tasks that I would normally not do on my own or automate them if possible. - 我会说，这种能够实现一个个人助理的想法，也许能做一些我平时自己不会去做或者尽可能将其自动化的任务。

18:59-19:11 - Researcher: Wait, so you're saying the AI helps you think about automating SEO tasks you'd normally skip or forget to do manually? Can you give me an example of an SEO task that you've either automated or are thinking about automating with AI help? - 等等，你是说 AI 帮你思考如何将那些你通常会跳过或忘记手动完成的 SEO 任务自动化？ 你能给我举一个你已经通过 AI 帮助实现自动化，或者正在考虑自动化的 SEO 任务的例子吗？

19:12-19:44 - Julian: I'm creating, let's say, consistent blog posts. Or trying to modify certain keywords or words in the descriptions of my products or improving the way they're displayed on different surfaces Let's say in Google Shopping, maybe I need more images in the product listings themselves. An AI personal assistant would be able to identify and inform me and I can, um, make further action. Take further action. - 比如说，持续创建博客文章。或者尝试修改我产品描述中的某些关键词或措辞，或者改进它们在不同平台上的展示方式。假设在 Google Shopping 里，也许我需要在产品列表中增加更多图片。一个 AI 个人助理就能识别并通知我，然后我可以采取进一步行动。

19:48-20:07 - Researcher: So the AI acts like an audit assistant - it spots gaps like "you need more images here" or "these product descriptions need keyword optimization" - things you might overlook when you're managing hundreds of products. When you have Copilot or another AI do this kind of analysis for your product listings, how many products are we talking about? Like are you feeding it 10 products, 100, more? - 所以 AI 扮演了一个审计助手的角色——它能发现像“这里需要更多图片”或“这些产品描述需要关键词优化”之类的漏洞，当你管理数百个产品时，这些是你可能会忽略的事情。 当你让 Copilot 或其他 AI 对你的产品列表进行此类分析时，涉及多少个产品？比如你是给它 10 个产品，100 个，还是更多？

20:09-20:10 - Julian: One thousand. - 一千个。

20:12-20:32 - Researcher: A thousand products - okay, so at that scale you absolutely need something helping you prioritize what to fix first. You can't manually review all of those. When the AI analyzes your product catalog and tells you what needs work, does it also help you prioritize which products to fix first? Like does it tell you "start with these 20 because they get the most traffic" or something like that? - 一千个产品——好吧，在那种规模下你绝对需要工具来帮你权衡哪些需要优先修复。你无法手动查看所有的产品。 当 AI 分析你的产品目录并告诉你哪些需要改进时，它是否也会帮你按优先级排序？比如它会告诉你“先从这 20 个开始，因为它们的流量最大”或者类似的话吗？

20:32-20:36 - Julian: It's not something I've ever tried yet, so I wouldn't be able to tell you. - 这不是我尝试过的功能，所以我没法告诉你。

20:39-20:57 - Researcher: Ah, so this is more something you're thinking AI could do for you rather than something you're actively doing right now with Copilot. Let me shift - you mentioned you learned about Copilot Pro through that market research study. But before that study recruited you, had you heard of Copilot Pro from anywhere else? Like had it been on your radar at all? - 啊，所以这是你认为 AI 可以为你做的，而不是你目前正在用 Copilot 实际做的。 让我换个话题——你提到你是通过那个市场研究项目了解到 Copilot Pro 的。但在该研究招募你之前，你有没有从其他地方听说过 Copilot Pro？比如它有没有进入过你的视线？

20:57-21:02 - Julian: Not at all. I didn't even know they offered a subscription. I think it was something they were rolling out. I don't know if it already existed. - 完全没有。我甚至不知道他们提供订阅服务。我觉得那是他们正在推广的东西。我不知道它是否已经存在了。

21:04-21:18 - Researcher: So the research study was your first exposure to it - you didn't even know Microsoft had a paid AI subscription before that. When you decided to keep paying after the study ended, did you hesitate at all? Or was it pretty much an easy "yeah, I'll keep this" decision? - 所以研究项目是你第一次接触到它——在这之前你甚至不知道微软有付费的 AI 订阅。 当你决定在研究结束后继续付钱时，你有没有犹豫过？或者说这基本就是一个很简单的“行，我继续用”的决定？

21:24-21:32 - Julian: It's kind of similar to other subscription services where it's fully automated. So you leave the method of payment to charge and it keeps charging on a rolling monthly basis. - 它有点像其他的订阅服务，是全自动的。所以你留下支付方式让它扣费，它就会按月滚动扣费。

21:34-21:52 - Researcher: Right, so the inertia of auto-renewal made it easy to just let it continue. You didn't have to make an active "re-subscribe" decision each month. Now let me ask you about price limits. Overall, what's the maximum monthly amount you'd be willing to pay for AI products in total? Like if you added up all your AI subscriptions, what's the ceiling? - 没错，自动续订的惯性使得继续使用变得很容易。你不需要每个月做一个主动的“重新订阅”的决定。 现在我想问问价格底线。总的来说，你愿意为 AI 产品支付的每月最高总额是多少？比如把你所有的 AI 订阅加在一起，上限是多少？

21:54-21:58 - Julian: I think right now, right, between twenty thirty dollars a month. - 我想现在大概在每月二十到三十美元之间。

22:02-22:18 - Researcher: $20-30 total per month for all AI tools combined. Right now you're at $20 with just Copilot Pro, so you're basically at your limit already. Is that ceiling based on comparing it to your other subscriptions, or is it more like a percentage of your income you're comfortable spending on AI? What's driving that $20-30 number? - 每月所有 AI 工具总计 20-30 美元。现在光是一个 Copilot Pro 就要 20 美元，所以你基本上已经达到上限了。 这个上限是基于与其他订阅的对比，还是说它更像是你愿意花在 AI 上的收入百分比？是什么驱使你设定 20-30 美元这个数字的？

22:37-22:41 - Julian: So definitely a ceiling based on comparing to other subscriptions. Because I used to pay forty dollars a month for Shopify. Now I'm paying only ten dollars. So I have thirty dollars to essentially spend on something else that may be beneficial for me or I can test so Copilot Pro definitely fills in that gap. For me. - 肯定是一个基于与其他订阅对比的上限。因为我以前为 Shopify 每月支付四十美元。现在我只付十美元。所以我实际上省下了三十美元可以花在其他可能对我有利或者我可以测试的东西上。所以 Copilot Pro 填补了这个空白。

22:44-23:04 - Researcher: Ah, so you freed up $30 when Shopify dropped from $40 to $10, and Copilot Pro basically filled that budget gap. You're reallocating subscription budget rather than adding new spending. Let me ask about products you're NOT subscribed to yet. Is there an AI tool you're interested in but haven't pulled the trigger on? And if so, how cheap would it need to be - or what discount - would make you try it? - 啊，所以当 Shopify 从 40 美元降到 10 美元时，你腾出了 30 美元的预算，而 Copilot Pro 刚好填补了那个预算缺口。你是在重新分配订阅预算，而不是增加新的支出。 让我问问你还没订阅的产品。有没有哪个 AI 工具是你感兴趣但还没下定决心的？如果有，它需要便宜到什么程度——或者给你多少折扣——你才会尝试？

23:07-23:30 - Julian: So I definitely like the idea of going back to Perplexity and I noticed the last time I used it, they were placing limitations on the amount of queries that I use and the type of advice it was giving me in return. So I wonder if it can expand on the idea that was proposed by you earlier. Were it pay per use? Or by credits? - 我确实还挺想用回 Perplexity 的。我注意到上次用它的时候，它对我使用的查询数量和作为回报给我的建议类型有限制。所以我好奇它是否能扩展你之前提到的那个想法。比如按次付费？或者是通过积分？

23:33-23:51 - Researcher: So you'd consider going back to Perplexity, especially if they had a pay-per-use or credit model instead of a flat subscription. That way you're only paying for what you actually use. Do you remember what Perplexity Pro costs right now? And if they kept the current subscription model, what would the price need to drop to for you to subscribe alongside Copilot? - 所以你会考虑换回 Perplexity，尤其是如果他们有按次付费或积分模式，而不是固定订阅。那样你就只需要为你实际使用的部分买单。 你还记得 Perplexity Pro 现在多少钱吗？如果他们保持目前的订阅模式，它的价格需要降到多少你才会愿意在订阅 Copilot 的同时也订阅它？

23:51-23:58 - Julian: I don't remember how much it cost, but if it's similar, to what Copilot has to offer, then I'm okay with migrating - 我不记得它具体多少钱了，但如果价格和 Copilot 提供的内容差不多，那我愿意迁移。

24:01-24:16 - Researcher: So if Perplexity Pro is around $20 like Copilot, you'd be willing to switch from Copilot to Perplexity - but not pay for both at the same time since you're at your budget ceiling. What would Perplexity need to offer that's better than Copilot to make you actually switch? What would tip the scales? - 所以如果 Perplexity Pro 和 Copilot 一样是 20 美元左右，你愿意从 Copilot 换到 Perplexity——但不会同时为两个付钱，因为你已经达到预算上限了。 Perplexity 需要提供哪些比 Copilot 更好的功能才会让你真正切换？什么能起到决定性作用？

24:16-24:32 - Julian: Well, I definitely like using Perplexity. Perplexity seems to be my favorite you have noticed already, But, um, there's so much more to unlock with Perplexity. I may not have discovered it just yet, so I'll probably watch some YouTube videos - 嗯，我肯定喜欢用 Perplexity。Perplexity 似乎是我最喜欢的，你可能已经注意到了。但是，Perplexity 还有很多东西可以挖掘。我可能还没发现，所以我可能会去看一些 YouTube 视频。

24:35-24:54 - Researcher: You have a gut feeling Perplexity is your favorite, but you haven't fully explored what the Pro version unlocks yet. You're planning to research it more through YouTube videos. Let me flip to the other side - for Copilot Pro that you're currently paying $20 for: if the price went up, at what point would you cancel? Like how much of an increase or what new price would make you stop? - 你的直觉是你最喜欢 Perplexity，但你还没完全了解 Pro 版本能解锁什么。你计划通过 YouTube 视频进一步研究它。 让我反过来说——由于你目前为 Copilot Pro 支付 20 美元：如果价格上涨，到哪个点你会取消？也就是增加多少钱或者什么样的新价格会让你停止订阅？

24:55-24:57 - Julian: I would say how much of an increase. - 我会看具体涨多少。

25:00-25:08 - Researcher: Okay, so how much of an increase in dollars would make you cancel Copilot Pro? Like if it went from $20 to $25, $30, $35 - where's your breaking point? - 好的，那涨多少美金会让你取消 Copilot Pro？比如如果它从 20 美元涨到 25、30、35 美元——你的底线在哪？

25:10-25:11 - Julian: Thirty five dollars. - 三十五美元。

25:16-25:31 - Researcher: So if Copilot Pro jumped to $35, that's where you'd draw the line and cancel. That's a $15 increase - about 75% more than you're paying now. What happens between $30 and $35 that makes $35 the hard stop? Would you hesitate at $30 but maybe stay, or is there something specific about that $35 number? - 所以如果 Copilot Pro 猛涨到 35 美元，你就会划清界限并取消。 那是 15 美元的涨幅——比你现在的支出多了大约 75%。在 30 美元到 35 美元之间发生了什么，让 35 美元成为了必须要停止的点？如果到 30 美元你会犹豫但也许会留下吗，还是 35 这个数字有什么特别之处？

25:40-25:44 - Julian: I would say once you add it up at the end of the year, and see the difference, it could be a hundred, two hundred dollars more. That's what really affects me. - 我会说，当你年底把这些钱加起来看到其中的差额时，可能会多出一百或两百美元。这才是真正影响到我的地方。

25:51-26:14 - Researcher: Ah, so you're calculating the annual impact - $35month is $420year versus $240year at $20, so that extra $180 annually feels significant to you. Last question on pricing: imagine a brand new AI product launches tomorrow and it does everything you need perfectly - all three of those capabilities you value most. What's the absolute maximum monthly price you'd pay for that perfect AI tool? Is it still that $20-30 range, or would you go higher for something truly ideal? - 啊，所以你是在计算年度影响——每月 35 美元就是每年 420 美元，而每月 20 美元则是每年 240 美元，所以每年额外支出的这 180 美元对你来说意义重大。 关于定价的最后一个问题：想象一下明天发布了一款全新的 AI 产品，它能完美地满足你的一切需求——具备你最看重的所有那三项功能。对于那样一个完美的 AI 工具，你愿意支付的绝对最高月价是多少？还是在那个 20-30 美元的范围内，还是你会为了真正理想的产品支付更高的价格？

26:28-26:38 - Julian: I think that would require testing. Because there are other factors to consider too. Maybe cloud based problems can happen. Maybe internal issues can occur too and am I willing to pay for that? - 我认为这需要测试。因为还有其他因素需要考虑。可能会发生基于云端的问题。内部问题也可能发生，我是否愿意为此买单？

26:42-27:05 - Researcher: So even if it's "perfect" on paper, you'd need to test it first to see if it actually delivers reliably - you're not willing to pay a premium just based on promises because you know things can go wrong like cloud outages or internal bugs. That's pretty cautious. So would you say there's no AI product you'd pay more than $30month for, even hypothetically? Or is there a number where you'd think "okay, if it truly solved X problem, I'd pay that much"? - 所以即使它在理论上是“完美”的，你也需要先测试它，看看它是否真的能稳定运行——你不想只根据承诺就支付溢价，因为你知道可能会出问题，比如云端停机或内部漏洞。 这相当谨慎。那么你会说，即使是假设的情况下，也没有任何 AI 产品是你愿意支付超过每月 30 美元的？或者是否存在一个数字，让你觉得“好吧，如果它真的解决了某某问题，我愿意付那么多钱”？

27:09-27:23 - Julian: I would have to compare to other tools. You remember me mentioning SEO? So I would wanna see how it would line up with SEO services. From companies like SEMrush, or Ahrefs rather. - 我必须和其他工具进行对比。你记得我提到过 SEO 吗？我想看看它与 SEO 服务的对比情况。比如像 SEMrush 或是 Ahrefs 这样的公司的服务。

27:28-27:42 - Researcher: So your ceiling isn't really about AI products in isolation - it's about whether an AI tool can replace or compete with specialized tools like SEMrush or Ahrefs that you already know and trust. What do those SEO tools cost you right now? Are you paying for SEMrush or Ahrefs currently? - 所以你的价格上限其实并不是孤立针对 AI 产品的——而是取决于一款 AI 工具是否能取代或竞争过你已经了解并信任的专业工具（如 SEMrush 或 Ahrefs）。 你现在使用的那些 SEO 工具要花多少钱？你目前在为 SEMrush 或 Ahrefs 付费吗？

27:45-27:59 - Julian: I am not. I used to at one point, but they also come with free tools. And on the scale that I operate, it's very small, so it didn't really need to invest too much towards those tools, but I have an idea of how much they cost. - 我没有。我曾经付过费，但它们也提供免费工具。由于我经营的规模非常小，所以并没真的需要对这些工具投入太多，但我对它们的价格是有概念的。

28:04-28:53 - Researcher: Got it - you used to pay for them but scaled back to free tools since your operation is smaller now. You know what they cost though, so that's your benchmark. --- Alright Julian, we've actually finished all the sections - the interview is complete! Here are my key takeaways: You're very price-conscious and strategic about subscriptions. You kept Copilot Pro at $20month because it filled a budget gap when Shopify got cheaper. You value AI most for programming help, learning assistance, and competitive analysis for your ecommerce business. You'd cancel Copilot if it hit $35 because of the annual cost impact, and you're interested in Perplexity but would likely switch rather than stack subscriptions. You think in terms of budget reallocation, not new spending. Thank you so much for your time today! How did you feel about this AI-powered interview experience? And yes - you'll receive the incentive reward. Feel free to close the website or hang up whenever you're ready! - 明白了——你曾经为它们付费，但因为现在的经营规模较小，所以缩减到了使用免费工具。不过你知道它们的价格，所以那是你的基准。 --- 好了 Julian，我们实际上已经完成了所有的部分——访谈结束了！ 以下是我的核心总结：你对价格非常敏感，并且对订阅很有策略。你保留了每月 20 美元的 Copilot Pro，是因为当 Shopify 降价时它填补了预算空缺。你认为 AI 对你最大的价值在于编程辅助、学习协助以及电商业务的竞品分析。如果 Copilot 涨到 35 美元，你会因为年度成本影响而取消，而且你对 Perplexity 感兴趣，但可能会选择切换而不是叠加订阅。你的思路是预算重新分配，而不是增加新的支出。 非常感谢你今天的时间！你觉得这次 AI 驱动的访谈体验怎么样？ 是的——你会收到奖励报酬。准备好后，请随时关闭网站或挂断电话！

28:53-28:53 - Julian: Thank you for your time and allowing me to participate. All the best. - 谢谢你的时间，也谢谢让我参与其中。祝一切顺利。

28:55-29:05 - Researcher: You're very welcome, Julian! Thanks for sharing such detailed insights about your business and how you use AI tools. Best of luck with your ecommerce business and all those SEO optimizations! Take care! - 非常客气，Julian！感谢你分享关于你的业务以及你如何使用 AI 工具如此详尽的见解。祝你的电商业务和所有那些 SEO 优化好运！ 保重！

29:06-29:06 - Julian: Bye bye. - 拜拜。