00:01-00:25 - Researcher: Hey there! I'm Trooly, and I'm really excited to chat with you today. This conversation will take about 60 minutes, and I'm here to learn from your experiences and perspectives—there are no right or wrong answers, just your honest thoughts. Before we get started, could you please give me a brief self-introduction? I'd love to get to know you a bit better. For example, you could tell me your age, occupation, and hobbies—or anything else you think would help me understand you better. - 嘿，你好！我是 Trooly，非常高兴今天能和你聊天。 这次对话大约需要 60 分钟，我来这里是为了了解你的经验和见解——答案没有对错之分，只要你真实的真实想法就好。 在我们开始之前，你能简单做个自我介绍吗？我想多了解你一点。例如，你可以告诉我你的年龄、职业和爱好，或者任何你认为能帮助我更好了解你的信息。

00:28-00:30 - Leo: Hi. Uh, my name is can you hear me? - 你好。呃，我的名字是……你能听到我说话吗？

00:32-00:33 - Researcher: Yes, I can - 是的，我能听到。

00:33-00:45 - Leo: Hello? Okay. Great. Uh, I'm Leo. I'm a graphic designer and I've been living in Phoenix, Arizona since nineteen seventy four. - 喂？好的。太棒了。呃，我是 Leo。我是一名平面设计师，从 1974 年起就一直住在亚利桑那州的凤凰城。

00:46-00:47 - Researcher: Nice to - 很高兴认识……

00:52-01:06 - Leo: And I like photography and graphic I guess I already said that. I like technical technical subjects. And I do like to fulfill fill out surveys and take get take interviews and I'm somewhat gregarious. Is there anything else you'd like to know about me? - 我喜欢摄影和平面设计……我想我刚才已经说过了。我喜欢技术性的主题。我也喜欢填写调查问卷和接受访谈，我性格比较合群。还有什么你想了解的吗？

01:08-01:16 - Researcher: Thanks for sharing that, Leo! Just curious—what's your age, if you don't mind me asking? And when you say you like technical subjects, what kinds of things are you drawn to? - 谢谢你的分享，Leo！冒昧问一下，你今年多大岁数？当你提到喜欢技术性主题时，你具体会被哪些事物吸引呢？

01:19-01:43 - Leo: Okay. Uh, I'm seventy two years old. And, uh, I'm interested in astrophysics and, you know, high-tech and basically, geology. Photography, working out, fine dining, museums, and music and that type of thing. - 好的。呃，我今年 72 岁了。而且，呃，我对天体物理学感兴趣，还有你知道的高科技，基本上还有地质学。摄影、健身、高级餐饮、博物馆还有音乐之类的。

01:45-02:07 - Researcher: That's a great mix of interests! I love that you're into both the creative side with graphic design and photography, and the technical side with astrophysics and geology. Now that I know a bit about you, let me tell you what we'll be talking about today. I'm really interested in understanding how you use AI tools and your experiences with them. There's no right or wrong answer—I just want to hear your honest thoughts and stories. Sound good? - 这是一个非常棒的兴趣组合！我喜欢你在平面设计和摄影方面的创意一面，也喜欢你在天体物理和地质学方面的技术一面。 现在我对你有所了解了，让我告诉你今天我们要聊什么。我非常想了解你如何使用 AI 工具以及你的使用经验。没有标准答案——我只想听听你的真实想法和经历。听起来可以吗？

02:09-02:10 - Leo: Yes. It sounds good. - 可以。听起来不错。

02:12-02:20 - Researcher: Perfect! So let's start with your work. You mentioned you're a graphic designer—can you tell me more about what you do? What are your main responsibilities, - 太好了！那我们先从你的工作开始。你提到过你是一名平面设计师——能跟我多讲讲你的工作内容吗？你的主要职责是什么，

02:20-02:21 - Leo: Sure. - 好的。

02:22-02:24 - Researcher: and what does a typical workday look like for you? - 你典型的一天工作是什么样的？

02:26-02:34 - Leo: Okay. Okay. I'll have a project, and, uh, what I'll do is do you want me to talk about AI first? - 好的。好的。我通常会接到一个项目，然后，呃，我该先聊 AI 吗？

02:37-02:45 - Researcher: No, not yet! Let's talk about your work first—just so I understand what your day-to-day looks like. Then we'll get into AI. So yeah, tell me about your - 不，还没到时候！我们先谈谈你的工作——只是为了让我了解你的日常生活。然后我们会进入 AI 的话题。所以，请跟我说说你的……

02:54-03:49 - Leo: Okay. Well, actually, I I'll check my my phone and, uh, LinkedIn to make sure I don't have any wanna make sure that I don't miss any any gigs that, uh, that may be requested of me. And since I have a number of projects due, you know, in progress, I'll try to fit them into the day at least partially for all of them or maybe for all of them at once. Or over over several days. And, uh, what I'll do is I'll I'll, uh, open up my MacBook Pro, and that's where I have most of my Adobe suite located. And I start working on my graphics I use Photoshop and InDesign. And Illustrator and CorelDRAW. And I also use, uh, Filmora. It's an animation software Also, I just recently purchased a lease for, uh, Riverside, which is a highly professional upscale video editor - 好的。其实，我通常会查看手机和 LinkedIn，确保我没有错过任何可能邀请我参加的零工（gigs）。因为我有好几个正在进行的（in progress）项目到期，我会尽量把它们安排进一天里，至少为每个项目做一部分，或者有时一次性处理完。或者分散在几天里。然后，呃，我会打开我的 MacBook Pro，我的大部分 Adobe 套件都在里面。我开始做图形工作，我会用到 Photoshop 和 InDesign。还有 Illustrator 和 CorelDRAW。我还会用到 Filmora。它是一个动画软件。另外，我最近刚租用了 Riverside，这是一个非常专业高端的视频编辑器。

03:52-04:03 - Researcher: Got it. So you're checking LinkedIn for new gigs and juggling multiple projects. When you say you have projects in progress—are these freelance clients, or do you work for a company? And what kind of graphic design - 明白了。所以你会查看 LinkedIn 上的新活儿，并同时处理多个项目。当你提到有正在进行的项目时——这些是自由职业客户，还是说你在一家公司工作？你通常为他们做哪种平面设计

04:03-04:05 - Leo: Oh, yeah. Sure. Freelance. - 哦，有的。当然。是自由职业。

04:07-04:08 - Researcher: work do you typically do for them? - 工作呢？

04:14-04:52 - Leo: Well, as an example, like, one of my newest gigs is a friend of mine wants to do podcasts. So I'm gonna edit the videos that he creates before they're actually launched. And I'm working on some presentations and making some animated videos that that are AI generated and also, uh, some basically make, uh, presentations and posters and combined pretty much combined this most of my skill sets together on each project. As best I can. Well, I also use Microsoft too. - 比如，我最新的一个活儿是一个朋友想做播客。我要在他正式发布视频之前进行剪辑。我还在做一些演示文稿（presentations），制作一些 AI 生成的动画视频，还有，呃，基本上就是制作演示文稿和海报，尽量在每个项目中把我大部分的技能结合起来。尽我所能。当然，我也用微软的产品。

04:54-05:13 - Researcher: So it sounds like you're doing a real variety of stuff—video editing, presentations, posters, animated videos. You mentioned AI-generated content there. Before we dive into that, I'm curious about the scope of your work. How many clients do you typically work with at once? And are these all freelance projects you find through LinkedIn, or do you have other ways clients find you? - 听起来你做的事情种类真多——视频剪辑、演示文稿、海报、动画视频。你刚才提到了 AI 生成的内容。在我们深入探讨那个话题之前，我很好奇你的工作规模。 你通常同时服务多少个客户？这些是在 LinkedIn 上找到的自由职业项目，还是有其他客户找到你的途径？

05:15-05:25 - Leo: I have various ways to find or be found. Let's see. I'm a let me look at your question a little better. - 我有各种寻找客户或被客户找到的方式。让我想想。让我再仔细看看你的问题。

05:26-05:34 - Researcher: Sure, take your time. I'm just trying to understand how your freelance business works—like how many clients you're usually juggling and where they come from. - 没关系，慢慢来。我只是想了解你的自由职业业务是如何运作的——比如你通常同时处理多少个客户，以及他们来自哪里。

05:41-05:52 - Leo: Okay. Well, actually, sometimes it it's all sometimes I only have one client and sometimes I have two or three at the same time. And, you know, it's up to me to prioritize and, uh, and and, you know, schedule them in such a way so that everybody's satisfied. - 好的。其实，有时候只有一个客户，有时候会同时有两三个。你知道，这取决于我如何划分优先级，呃，并安排进度，让每个人都满意。

05:54-05:59 - Researcher: That makes sense. And where do most of these clients come from—is it mostly LinkedIn, - 有道理。那这些客户大部分来自哪里——主要是 LinkedIn 吗？

05:59-06:34 - Leo: Okay. Okay. Yeah. A lot of it is word-of-mouth. Lot of it is word-of-mouth and repeat return clients from previous years. Uh, you know, I I've worked for them before, and, also, I use a, uh, AI generate you know, to find leads. I use an AI generated platform called ClientFind dot ai. They give me hundreds of maybe a thousand leads. I'll just say hundreds of leads to choose from then they'll fill out the application for me and send it off for me. - 好的，好的。是的。很多是靠口碑。很多是靠口碑和往年的老客户。呃，你知道，我以前为他们服务过，而且，我也使用 AI 生成……你知道，为了寻找潜在客户（leads）。我使用一个名为 ClientFind.ai 的 AI 平台。他们会给我数百个甚至上千个潜在客户。就说有几百个可选吧，然后他们会帮我填写申请并帮我发送。

06:37-06:48 - Researcher: Interesting! So ClientFind helps you find and apply to leads automatically. How long have you been using that, and how well does it work for you—like, how many of those hundreds of leads actually turn into real clients? - 有意思！所以 ClientFind 能帮你自动寻找并申请潜在客户。你用这个多久了，效果如何——比如，那几百个潜在客户中，有多少最终变成了真正的客户？

06:53-07:44 - Leo: Oh, let's see. Well, the graphic design market is kind of congested at this time. I think I believe I started ClientFind about four months ago. Now they promised not the promise. They they kinda, like, guarantee or tell you that odds are you'll get something within three months. That doesn't seem to be the case But, yeah, I think I think maybe I did get one from them I was liking I I guess I was kind of like in in the shortlisted And some of them actually don't start yet, So I don't I don't know for sure how successful it is, but, you know, if as time goes on, if I get flooded with the with gigs, I may have to revisit that website and see, you know, what else I can do with it. - 噢，让我想想。现在平面设计市场有点拥挤。我想我是大约四个月前开始用 ClientFind 的。他们承诺……不是承诺。他们有点像是保证或者告诉你，三个月内你很可能会得到一些回报。目前看起来好像不是那么回事。但是，是的，我想我可能通过他们得到了一单，我之前好像是在入围名单（shortlisted）里。其中一些其实还没开始，所以我不能确定它到底有多成功，但你知道，随着时间推移，如果我的活儿多到忙不过来，我可能会重新审视那个网站，看看，你知道，我还能用它做点什么。

07:45-08:02 - Researcher: So mostly still word-of-mouth and repeat clients doing the heavy lifting. That's helpful context. Now, if you don't mind sharing—what are your main sources of income? Is it primarily this freelance graphic design work, or do you have other income streams? And roughly what's your monthly income range from each? Totally - 所以主要还是靠口碑和老客户来维持。这个背景信息很有帮助。 现在，如果你不介意分享的话——你的主要收入来源是什么？主要是这门自由平面设计工作吗，还是你有其他的收入来源？每个来源每月的收入范围大概是多少？完全……

08:03-08:29 - Leo: Yeah. Yeah. Well, income streams actually the interviews these interviews and surveys is part of the income stream. And, yeah, obviously, the graphic design and you know, I do have Social Security. I don't wanna get into too much detail. It's kinda personal, but yeah, between those three, that helps a lot. - 是的。是的。收入来源其实包括访谈……这些访谈和调查也是收入来源的一部分。当然还有平面设计，你知道，我还有社会保险金。我不想谈太多细节。这有点隐私，但没错，这三项加起来对我帮助很大。

08:31-08:43 - Researcher: That's totally fair, I appreciate you sharing that. So it's a mix of freelance design, Social Security, and participating in research like this. Let me shift gears a bit—do you run any social media accounts, either for yourself or for clients? - 完全可以理解，感谢你的分享。所以是自由设计、社保金以及参与像这样的调研活动。 让我换个话题——你有没有运营任何社交媒体账号，无论是为你自己还是为客户？

08:46-09:36 - Leo: Actually, I helped a client build a website because they they had GoDaddy and that my website is made with GoDaddy. Generally, I social media can yeah. I actually help the client maintain their so maintain and improve their social media presence on LinkedIn. And, uh, for another client, I did pretty much the same. I showed them didn't even know what a one one client didn't even know what a hashtag was or, you know, how it was useful. I showed him that, and I helped him, uh, you know, get get his feet wet. In using social media on LinkedIn, and now he's pretty much doing it continuously. And other client as well, so it's two clients I've helped with social media. - 事实上，我帮一个客户建了一个网站，因为他们用的是 GoDaddy，而我的网站也是用 GoDaddy 做的。通常情况下，社交媒体……是的。我实际上在帮客户维护并提升他们在 LinkedIn 上的社交媒体存在感（presence）。呃，对于另一个客户，我也做了几乎相同的工作。我向他展示……他甚至不知道什么是标签（hashtag），或者它有什么用。我展示给他看，并帮他，呃，你知道，入门。让他学会在 LinkedIn 上使用社交媒体，现在他基本上一直在做。还有另一个客户也是，所以我帮了两个客户做社交媒体。

09:38-09:48 - Researcher: So you're helping clients with their LinkedIn presence, teaching them the basics. Do you run any personal social media accounts for yourself—like to showcase your design work or build your own brand? - 所以你在帮客户提升 LinkedIn 的影响力，教他们基础知识。你自己有运营个人的社交媒体账号吗——比如展示你的设计作品或建立个人品牌？

09:48-09:57 - Leo: Well, LinkedIn is one of them. And, also, I have my own website. And, also, I have an X account - LinkedIn 是其中一个。还有，我有我自己的网站。另外，我也由于一个 X 账号。

10:00-10:07 - Researcher: Got it. And on LinkedIn or your X account—do you post your design work regularly, or is it more just for networking and staying connected? - 明白了。在 LinkedIn 或你的 X 账号上——你会定期发布你的设计作品吗，还是更多地用于社交和保持联系？

10:08-10:10 - Leo: It's a bit of both. - 两者都有。

10:12-10:16 - Researcher: Makes sense. And roughly how many followers or connections do you have on those platforms? - 明白了。在这些平台上你大约有多少粉丝或联系人？

10:22-10:46 - Leo: I think on X, I might have maybe a hundred and fifty. No. Actually, I'm following a hundred and fifty and followed by, I'm gonna say, maybe fifty. Maybe maybe more. It's I don't remember. Maybe like a maybe while it's I'll say seventy five just to be on the safe side. On LinkedIn, I have thousands of connections. - 我想在 X 上，我可能有大约 150 个。不。实际上我关注了 150 个，被关注的话，我想大概有 50 个。也许更多。我不记得了。也许像……为了保险起见我说 75 个吧。在 LinkedIn 上，我有数千个联系人。

10:48-10:49 - Researcher: Thousands on - 成千上万个在……

10:49-10:58 - Leo: Actually, yeah, actually, fifteen hundred come to think of it. I got fifteen hundred connections on LinkedIn at at the very least. That's a lot of coverage. - 实际上，是的，我想起来了，大概是 1500 个。我在 LinkedIn 上至少有 1500 个联系人。这覆盖面已经很大了。

10:58-11:07 - Researcher: Nice, That's solid coverage for sure. And have you ever monetized any of your social media presence directly—like getting - 很棒，覆盖面确实很广。那你有没有直接从社交媒体上变现（monetized）过——比如获得……

11:08-11:22 - Leo: No. Actually, not. I'm sorry. No. Actually actually, I've never monetized it. I heard that you can. I never just got a I don't quite understand how to do it or if I'm if I have the resources to do it, but do you have any advice on that? - 不。其实没有。抱歉。不，实际上我从来没有靠它变现。我听说可以变现。但我只是不太明白该怎么做，或者我是否有资源去做，关于这方面你有什么建议吗？

11:24-11:30 - Researcher: I appreciate you asking, but I'm here to learn from you today rather than give advice! Let's shift gears now. I want to talk about - 我很感谢你提问，但我今天是来向你学习的，而不是来提供建议的！我们现在换个话题。 我想聊聊……

11:30-11:30 - Leo: Okay. - 好的。

11:32-11:40 - Researcher: AI tools. What AI apps or websites do you use most often in your daily life or work? And what's your experience been like with them? - AI 工具。在日常生活或工作中，你最常使用哪些 AI 应用或网站？你使用它们的体验如何？

11:41-13:16 - Leo: Perplexity dot com. And Poe dot com And, uh, what a little bit of using Claude. Uh, what Claude did actually I wanted it to re to modify some code so that it'll do something different And it wrote code for me, that really impressed me that and and then the app can actually rewrite code for you or write code in the beginning. Something else I did, sometimes on LinkedIn, I would find a chart or a graph or, a, uh, a raster file that, you know, can't be edited. You can't edit the text in it. And I will ask AI to, uh, transcribe it into editable text and put it in the form that I could bring into, uh, Excel. And it does that. It does that well, and it's really impressive. It saves it's much better than OCR, a lot more accurate you know, it almost a hundred it's like in the high ninety percentile percent, uh, accuracy. You know, it's it's a great tool And also, like, I I wanted to, uh, have a like, a long list of colors that I used, uh, in a in a design, and I asked AI to translate the the, uh, like, the different the swatches, the different swatches and give me their CMYK values. And, you know, pretty much automated it. - Perplexity.com。还有 Poe.com。呃，还用了一点 Claude。呃，Claude 帮了我很大忙，实际上我想让它修改一些代码，以便实现不同的功能。它帮我写了代码，这真的让我印象深刻，应用居然可以帮你重写代码或从头开始写代码。我还做了别的事，有时在 LinkedIn 上，我会发现一张图表、一张图形或一个位图（raster file），这种文件是无法编辑的。你没法修改里面的文本。我会让 AI 把它转录成可编辑的文本，并转换成我可以导入 Excel 的格式。它做到了。它做得很好，真的令人印象深刻。它比 OCR（光学字符识别）好得多，也准确得多……你知道，它几乎是百分之百，大概有百分之九十几的高准确率。你知道，这是一个很棒的工具。还有，比如我想……我有一长串在设计中使用过的颜色列表，我让 AI 翻译这些……比如不同的色板，给它们标上 CMYK 值。你知道，基本上把它自动化了。

13:18-13:29 - Researcher: That's really practical stuff—transcribing charts, converting color values, writing code. So you mentioned Perplexity, Poe.com, and Claude. Are you paying for any of these AI tools, or are you using the free versions? - 这些确实是非常实用的工作——转录图表、转换颜色值、编写代码。那么你提到了 Perplexity、Poe.com 和 Claude。你是在为这些 AI 工具付费吗，还是在使用免费版？

13:46-14:38 - Leo: As far as perplexity, Poe, and Claude, they're all the free versions. Now I have a software called Filmora, it's a video editing app, and it runs almost totally on AI. I mean, it's it's it's a it's a video editing app on steroids. And there's a lot of stuff you can do with it. So, you know, I am subscribing to them. I'm also subscribing to video editing program Riverside. And what else? Well, I think I think with Filmora, I think I buy credits in order to I'm not if I I'm not sure if I, uh, actually have a lease on them. I probably do, but there's two versions of it that I have. One is on the phone and and and one is on, uh, the PC and the Mac. But yeah, there's some also, I can't I have a subscription to Canva and Figma. And Adobe Creative Suite, Microsoft three sixty five, - 至于 Perplexity、Poe 和 Claude，它们都是免费版。目前我也用到一个叫 Filmora 的软件，它是一个视频编辑应用，几乎完全运行在 AI 之上。我的意思是，它是一个“增强版”的视频编辑应用。你可以用它做很多事情。所以，我订阅了它。我还订阅了一个视频剪辑程序 Riverside。还有什么？嗯，我想对于 Filmora，我是购买积分来使用的。我不确定我是否真的租用了它。我可能租了，但我有两个版本。一个是手机上的，一个是电脑和 Mac 上的。但是是的，除此之外，我还订阅了 Canva 和 Figma。还有 Adobe Creative Suite，Microsoft 365。

14:39-14:52 - Researcher: Okay, so you've got several subscriptions going. Let me make sure I understand which ones have AI features that you're paying for. For Filmora—you said it's AI-powered video editing. How much are you paying for that, and is it a monthly or yearly subscription? - 好的，所以你开了几个订阅。让我确认一下你付费的哪些包含 AI 功能。 关于 Filmora——你说它是 AI 驱动的视频剪辑。你为此支付多少钱，是月订阅还是年订阅？

14:53-15:22 - Leo: Uh-huh. I think I think it's like, twenty two dollars a month maybe. Oh oh, Filmora. No wait. Filmora they use have two versions. I think one one version is, like, twenty two dollars a month. And the other version, the the desktop version, I have credits. And when I run out of credits, I just buy more. - 嗯。我想大概是每月 22 美元。噢噢，Filmora。不对，等等。Filmora 好像有两个版本。我想一个版本是每月 22 美元。另一个版本，也就是桌面版，我是用积分（credits）的。当积分用完时，我就再买一点。

15:24-15:25 - Researcher: Got it. So the desktop - 明白了。所以桌面版……

15:25-15:26 - Leo: Yeah. - 是的。

15:27-15:32 - Researcher: version you buy credits as needed. And when you buy credits, roughly how much do you spend each time? - 是根据需要购买积分。当你购买积分时，每次大约花费多少？

15:34-15:42 - Leo: For two sec for about close to two thousand credits it cost me about twelve dollars. It's not too bad. - 大约 2000 个积分，花费我大约 12 美元。还不算太糟。

15:44-15:50 - Researcher: That's pretty reasonable. And how often do you find yourself buying those credits—like every month, or less frequently? - 挺合理的。你发现自己多久买一次积分——比如每个月，还是频率更低？

15:52-16:25 - Leo: It's sporadic. It's usually it's in it's not steady. Like, some some months, I'll buy, you know, maybe two thousand credits or nineteen hundred credits And another month, you know, I I won't buy any. So it depends on the demand of the gig of the gigs that I have. In fact, the way one of them is going, I'm probably gonna use them, uh, probably buy some more credits pretty soon. But that's okay. - 断断续续的。通常并不固定。比如有些月份，我会买……可能买 2000 个积分或 1900 个积分。而另一个月，你知道，我可能一个都不买。所以这取决于我接的活儿的需求。事实上，按照目前某项工作的进度，我可能很快又要买一些积分了。但没关系。

16:26-16:32 - Researcher: Makes sense—it's tied to your project load. Now you mentioned - 理解——这和你的项目负荷挂钩。刚才你提到了……

16:32-16:32 - Leo: Yep. - 没错。

16:33-16:37 - Researcher: Riverside for video editing. What are you paying for that one? - Riverside 用于视频剪辑。那个你付多少钱？

16:43-17:09 - Leo: I think that one is approximately twenty five dollars a month. It's very high end. It's pretty pretty amazing. You know what it can do? It could actually, uh, like, if you have a presentation or you're interviewing somebody, and people say, you see they they pause and they say, um, and all that stuff. It'll take those out. It'll it actually it'll optimize your, uh, your audio for you. - 我想大约是每月 25 美元。它非常高端。非常驚人。你知道它能做什么吗？它可以……比如你有一个演示文稿或者你在采访某人，人们说话时会停顿，会说“嗯”之类的话。它会把那些去掉。它实际上会帮你优化音频。

17:11-17:18 - Researcher: That's slick. And you also mentioned Canva and Figma—do those have AI features you're using, or are they more traditional design tools for you? - 太利索了。你还提到了 Canva 和 Figma——它们是否有你正在使用的 AI 功能，还是说对你而言它们更多是传统的设计工具？

17:22-18:36 - Leo: Both of them are heavily into AI. And Canva has, like, a a bunch of AI related apps like, remove the background, and also, oh, there's another there's another service that I in addition to Canva and Figma, there's another service that I have called Shutterstock. And Shutterstock basically is you know, royalty free images that that that you subscribe to. Okay? And, uh, what it does is it's pretty amazing. There's a little bit of AI built into that one too. So I would say that Shutterstock Shutterstock is try I feel like Shutterstock is trying to compete with Figma or no or probably Canva more accurately, but a lot of these programs, what what's happening is, Canva is also doing trying to do some video editing. The Canva, Figma, and Filmora almost like theyre competing with each other. Because one of these days in the future, I mean, it's all gonna pre emerge into one program. That that's my opinion. - 它们两个都深度融入了 AI。Canva 有一大堆 AI 相关的应用，比如一键去背，而且……哦，除了 Canva 和 Figma，我还有另一项服务叫 Shutterstock。Shutterstock 基本上就是你订阅的免版税图片库。对吧？而且，它做得很惊人。那里也内置了一点 AI。所以我会说 Shutterstock 正在尝试……我觉得 Shutterstock 在尝试与 Figma 竞争，或者更准确地说是和 Canva 竞争。但很多这些程序正在发生的变化是，Canva 也在尝试做一些视频剪辑。Canva、Figma 和 Filmora 之间几乎是在互相竞争。因为未来的某一天，我的意思是，它们都会合并成一个程序。这是我的观点。

18:39-18:44 - Researcher: Interesting prediction. So for Canva, Figma, and Shutterstock—what are you paying for each of those monthly? - 有意思的预测。那么对于 Canva、Figma 和 Shutterstock——你每个月分别为它们支付多少钱？

18:52-19:28 - Leo: I think Shutterstock is twenty five dollars a month. I think Fit Filmora is, you know, that's the two versions. The mobile version, I think, is, like, twenty dollars a month. And the desktop version is what you buy the credits. Actually, you'll buy the credits for the for the phone ver for the phone version too, but I may have purchased some credits for them too. And Canva I think Canva's sixteen dollars a month. Fifteen dollars a month. Riverside, I I said it was, like, maybe, like, twenty five dollars a month, and Shutterstock, I think, is about twenty five dollars a month. Something like that. - 我想 Shutterstock 是每月 25 美元。我想 Filmora……就是那两个版本。移动版我想大概是每月 20 美元。桌面版就是买积分的那种。实际上，我也为手机版买过积分，但我可能也给它们买过一些积分。Canva 我想是每月 16 美元。15 美元。Riverside 我刚才说了大概是每月 25 美元，Shutterstock 我想也是 25 美元左右。类似这样。

19:30-19:41 - Researcher: Okay, so that's quite a bit invested in AI-powered tools each month. You also mentioned Adobe Creative Suite and Microsoft 365—are those primarily for the traditional design features, or are you using AI features in those too? - 好的，所以每个月在 AI 驱动工具上的投入还挺多的。你还提到了 Adobe Creative Suite 和 Microsoft 365——这些主要是为了传统设计功能，还是你也用到了其中的 AI 功能？

19:45-21:03 - Leo: Well, actually, there is some AI embedded in the Microsoft programs. It's not as heavily integrated as, let's say, with other you know, with the other softwares I mentioned. Microsoft's three sixty five cost to me approximately a hundred and ten dollars a year to lease it. And Adobe Creative Suite cost me approximately sixty dollars a month in order to but you get a lot for it. And they are beginning to introduce AI a lot of their programs. So in particular, like Photoshop actually was the first was the first of them that I saw, you know, AI, and I actually used some of it. And I'm sure as time goes on, we're gonna get even more and more advanced and compete with the other programs that I mentioned. Because, you know, they're all I believe, Adobe is I I saw I heard a podcast saying that Adobe actually is the is the front runner in graphic design programs, and Figma is the is is the second most And the rest are, you know, less so, but that that's in a nutshell. - 实际上，微软的程序里也嵌入了一些 AI。它的集成程度不像我提到的其他软件那么高。Microsoft 365 每年的租赁费用大约是 110 美元。Adobe Creative Suite 每月大约需要 60 美元，但你能得到很多东西。而且他们开始在很多程序中引入 AI。特别是像 Photoshop，它是我看到的第一个加入 AI 的程序，我也实际用了一些。我确信随着时间的推移，它们会变得越来越先进，并与我提到的其他程序竞争。因为，你知道，它们都在……我相信 Adobe 是……我听过一个播客说 Adobe 实际上是平面设计程序的领头羊，Figma 排第二。其他的就没那么领先了，大概就是这样。

21:05-21:25 - Researcher: That's helpful context. So let me make sure I understand your AI toolkit for work. You've got Perplexity, Poe.com, and Claude for AI assistance—all free versions. Then for content creation with AI features, you're paying for Filmora, Riverside, Canva, Figma, Shutterstock, Adobe Creative Suite, and Microsoft 365. Is that the complete picture, or are there other AI tools you use regularly for work? - 这个背景很有帮助。让我确认一下你的工作 AI 工具包。你使用 Perplexity、Poe.com 和 Claude 作为 AI 助理——都是免费版。然后对于包含 AI 功能的内容创作，你付费使用了 Filmora、Riverside、Canva、Figma、Shutterstock、Adobe Creative Suite 和 Microsoft 365。我总结的全吗，还是还有其他你经常在工作中使用的 AI 工具？

21:33-21:36 - Leo: No. I think I think that just about does it. - 不。我想差不多就这些了。

21:39-21:47 - Researcher: Perfect. Let's dive deeper into these AI tools, starting with the free ones you mentioned—Perplexity, Poe.com, and Claude. What do you mainly use Perplexity for in your work? - 太棒了。让我们深入探讨一下这些 AI 工具，从你提到的免费工具开始——Perplexity、Poe.com 和 Claude。你在工作中主要用 Perplexity 做什么？

21:52-23:11 - Leo: Perplexity like if I need information or details about where to find something, I'll ask it also ask it to transcribe images that have text on them, I can't edit them. I'll ask it to transcribe them into text that I could pull into Excel. Which is a great help. And let's see. What else can I do with perplexity? I think perplexity also, aside from being a transcriber, it's just like a go to for information because it seems to have to seems to to cast a wide net as far as, you know, getting answers to questions. Poe, it seems Poe is pretty much the same? But but but not but it's it doesn't have as much reach. Of information And Claude Claude is, uh, pretty amazing because it can rewrite code. And I think there might be there are other apps that do video and and I may have possibly tried one of them. Well, I think it's called Opus. Yeah. That that's another AI tool out there. I think I was just experimenting with it. - Perplexity……比如如果我需要关于去哪里找东西的信息或细节，我会问它。我还会让它转录带有文字的图片，比如我无法编辑的信息。我会让它把它们转录成文本，以便我可以拉进 Excel。这提供了巨大的帮助。让我想想。我还能用 Perplexity 做什么？除了作为转录器，Perplexity 还是获取信息的首选，因为它在获取问题的答案方面似乎覆盖面非常广。Poe 的话，似乎 Poe 也差不多？但它的信息触达范围没有那么广。而 Claude……Claude 真的很神奇，因为它可以重写代码。我想还有其他可以做视频的 App，我可能试过其中一个。噢，我想它叫 Opus。是的。那是另一个现有的 AI 工具。我想我只是在尝试性地使用它。

23:13-23:24 - Researcher: Got it. So when you use Perplexity to transcribe images with text into editable Excel format—can you walk me through a specific recent example where you did that? What kind of image was it - 明白了。当你使用 Perplexity 将带有文字的图像转录成可编辑的 Excel 格式时——你能给我具体讲讲最近的一个例子吗？那是什么样的图片

23:24-23:27 - Leo: Okay. Yes. I'm sorry. Go ahead. - 好的。是的。抱歉。你继续。

23:30-23:31 - Researcher: I was - 我刚才……

23:31-24:23 - Leo: Okay. Okay. This is what I this is what I did. I saw, like, on LinkedIn, they had a chart. So what I did was on my phone, I did a screenshot of the chart Remember, this is a chart that can't be edited. It's just a raster file. It's just composed of pixels. So I would, uh, take a screenshot of that and use Signal to transfer it over to my PC, and then I would ask Claude to I mean, not Claude, perplexity to transcribe it into editable text, you know, with delimiters, like a CSV file. I could also do that on my phone. So I got Perplexity on the phone and I access it also on my, uh, desktop. - 好的，好的。我是这么做的。我在 LinkedIn 上看到一张图表（chart）。于是我就用手机对那个图表截了屏。记住，这是一个无法编辑的图表。它只是一个位图文件。它只是由像素组成的。所以我给它截屏，用 Signal 把它传到我的电脑上，然后我会要求 Claude……不，是要求 Perplexity 把它转录成可编辑的文本，带分隔符的那种，就像 CSV 文件。我也可以在手机上做这件事。所以我手机上装了 Perplexity，我在桌面上也能访问它。

24:24-24:31 - Researcher: That's really clever. And when it transcribes that chart data for you, how accurate is it usually? Do you have to do a lot of cleanup afterward? - 真的很聪明。当它为你转录那些图表数据时，通常有多准确？事后你需要做大量的清理工作吗？

24:33-24:44 - Leo: Very little cleanup. I would say ninety ninety nine percent, ninety five percent and sometimes, per it's just a hundred percent perfect. - 很少需要清理。我会说 99%，95%，有时候简直是百分之百完美。

24:47-24:49 - Researcher: Impressive. And what do you - 令人印象深刻。那你……

24:49-24:49 - Leo: Yeah. - 是。

24:51-24:56 - Researcher: do with that data once it's in Excel? What kind of charts are you typically pulling from LinkedIn? - 把数据放进 Excel 后会做什么？你通常从 LinkedIn 上提取什么样的图表？

24:58-26:23 - Leo: Well, for a while, I was pulling in charts that had different kind of like a list of all the AIs, the AI apps that are out there and which ones were free. And I have, like, a big uh, like, like, a big Excel spreadsheet with, like, maybe over a hundred of them on there. So if I ever need, uh, you know, or wanna look for another app, I just go to that spreadsheet and say, I'll try this one now. And there's other information on there that I like I was mentioning before, like, with the swatches, with the colors. I was trying to generate like, a style guide for one of my clients and colors were included in that. So it was very helpful because this work of art I did had over a hundred colors in it. And it would take me a very long time to to track. To try and translate them all into CMYK and, uh, and, you know, numerical values So I just, basically asked the AI, like, in perplexity, say, in the attached file here, what are the CMYK values of all these colors? And it would do it, like, within, like, a few seconds. - 嗯，有一阵子，我一直在提取包含各种……比如市面上所有 AI 应用列表以及哪些是免费的列表。我有，比如一个很大的 Excel 表格，上面可能有超过一百个。所以如果我什么时候需要或者想找另一个应用，我只要去那个表格说：“现在试试这个吧。”上面还有其他我喜欢的信息，就像我之前提到的，关于那色板、关于颜色的。我当时在尝试为我的一个客户生成类似风格指南（style guide）的东西，其中包含了颜色。这非常有帮助，因为我做的这件艺术品里有超过一百种颜色。如果我要一个个手动追踪，那会花费我非常长的时间。去尝试把它们全部转换成 CMYK 和，呃，数值。所以我基本上只是问 AI，比如在 Perplexity 里说：“在附件的这个文件里，这些颜色的 CMYK 值分别是什么？”它会在几秒钟内完成。

26:25-26:27 - Researcher: That's a huge time saver. So you're - 那省了大把时间。所以你……

26:27-26:28 - Leo: Yep. - 没错。

26:30-26:41 - Researcher: using it for both research—building that database of AI tools—and actual client work like the style guide. When you first started using Perplexity, do you remember where you heard about it or what made you try it? - 用它来做调研——建立那个 AI 工具数据库——也用于实际的客户工作，比如风格指南。当你第一次开始使用 Perplexity 时，你还记得是在哪里听说它的，或者是什么让你想尝试它吗？

26:42-27:31 - Leo: Yes. A couple two or three years ago, I was at a party and like a dinner and one of the hosts was talking to one of his relatives and told him about Perplexity. He said, you gotta gotta try. This is really good. It's a really good web browser. Well, it's a It's not a web browser. It's a it's the it's one of the best, uh, apps for acquiring information So in a sense, it does browse. So anyway, I heard about it like, two or three years ago and I put it on my phone And I've been using it, you know, ever since. It's a great it's a great tool. - 记得。两三年前，我在参加一个聚会，一个晚餐会，其中一个主人正在和他的一位亲戚聊天，告诉他关于 Perplexity 的事。他说：“你一定要试试。这个真的很好。它是获取信息最好的浏览器之一。”嗯，它不是网页浏览器。它是获取信息最好的应用之一。但在某种意义上，它确实能浏览。总之，我大约两三年前听说它，就把它下载到手机上了。从那以后我一直用它。它是一个非常伟大的工具。

27:33-27:41 - Researcher: So you overheard that conversation at a dinner party and immediately downloaded it. What did you first use it for when you got it on your phone? - 所以你是在晚餐聚会上偶然听到了这段对话，然后立即下载了它。你刚拿到手机上时，最先用它做什么？

27:42-27:48 - Leo: Just for experimentation and curiosity, Oh, later on, I started to use it in my work too. - 只是为了实验和出于好奇心。哦，后来我开始在工作中也使用它。

27:51-27:55 - Researcher: What kind of experiments did you try early on? Like, what questions were you asking it? - 你早期尝试过什么样的实验？比如，你会问它什么问题？

27:57-28:17 - Leo: Let's see. What type of questions? I think I think I remember asking it to list the most earth like exoplanets I remember that. So basically felt like instilling like, using some of my hobbies with Perplexity. - 让我想想。什么样的问题？我想我记得问过它，列出最像地球的系外行星（exoplanets）。我记得这个。基本上就像是在 Perplexity 上融入了我的一些爱好。

28:19-28:34 - Researcher: That makes sense—you mentioned geology as one of your interests earlier. So it started as a curiosity tool for your hobbies, and then at some point it shifted into work use. Do you remember what triggered that shift? When did you realize, "Oh, I can actually use this for client projects"? - 明白了——你之前提到过地质学是你的爱好之一。所以它一开始是你爱好的好奇心工具，然后在某个时间点转到了工作用途。你记得是什么触发了这种转变吗？你什么时候意识到“哦，其实我可以把它用在客户项目上”？

28:38-29:31 - Leo: I think the change was kind of gradual I don't remember the exact moment or circumstance where I switched. Maybe I figured, well, these are times these apps are time savers So when I was at when I encountered okay, here's an example. Like, uh, ClientFind dot ai, the platform that I find, you know, leads for. Now that that would be a good example of when I started the transition over to using AI more and more. Because, like, nine I believe, like, uh, nine months to a year ago, AI was not very prevalent on you know, on the scene. But then it's only been maybe six to nine months when it got really, integrated into everyday life. - 我想这个转变是渐进的。我不记得切换的具体时刻或环境了。也许我心想：“既然这些应用是省时利器……”当我遇到……好吧，这里有个例子。比如 ClientFind.ai，那个我用来找潜在客户的平台。那可能就是我开始越来越多地向使用 AI 过渡的一个好例子。因为，比如在九个月前到一年前，AI 在视野中还不是那么普遍。但也就是在过去六到九个月的时间里，它才真正融入到日常生活中。

29:35-29:50 - Researcher: Interesting. So around six to nine months ago, AI really started becoming part of your daily workflow—and ClientFind was one of those early work tools. When you think about Perplexity specifically, you've been using the free version this whole time, right? Have you ever - 有意思。所以大约在六到九个月前，AI 真正开始成为你日常工作流的一部分——而 ClientFind 是那些早期的工作工具之一。当具体谈到 Perplexity 时，你一直都在使用免费版本，对吗？你有没有

29:50-29:50 - Leo: Yes. - 是的。

29:52-29:56 - Researcher: considered upgrading to a paid version, or has the free version done everything you need? - 考虑过升级到付费版本，还是说免费版本已经满足了你所有的需求？

29:58-30:33 - Leo: Uh, the free version does everything I need. If I don't overuse it. Like, I could I could use the, free version several times a day, but I can't, like, do it continuously when that happens, I try using Poe instead And if that doesn't work, I'll try to find another app that has another free version because free versions work. You you get, like, three tries with it or something like that. So when I run out of tries, I just switch to another one. - 嗯，免费版本能满足我所有的需求。只要我不过度使用它。比如，我可以一天使用几次免费版，但不能连续不断地使用。当发生那种情况（达到限制）时，我会尝试改用 Poe。如果那也不行，我会试着找另一个有免费额度的应用，因为免费版总归是管用的。你通常会有三次尝试机会之类的。所以当我用完次数时，我就切换到另一个。

30:35-30:36 - Researcher: Got it. So - 明白。所以

30:37-30:45 - Leo: I don't I'm not planning I'm not planning on, uh, buying any of them if I, you know, if I can keep things the way they are. - 我不打算，我不打算购买其中的任何一个，如果我能，你知道的，如果我能保持现状的话。

30:47-31:00 - Researcher: That makes sense—you're kind of rotating between free versions to avoid hitting the limits. When you do hit those limits on Perplexity, how frustrating is that moment? Does it disrupt your workflow significantly, or is switching to Poe pretty seamless? - 这很有道理——你是在不同的免费版本之间轮换，以避免触及限制。当你真的在 Perplexity 上触及这些限制时，那一刻你有多沮丧？它会严重干扰你的工作流吗，还是说切换到 Poe 的过程非常无缝？

31:01-31:30 - Leo: Well, usually, I get a notice that I've I've exceeded the number of tries in the middle of it answering a question for me. So, uh, all I have to do is x out that that notice and Perplexity will still complete that task. But I can't ask it anymore. Frustrating, a little bit, but I can just go somewhere else and, you know, get the info. It's not it's not the end of the world, so to speak. - 嗯，通常情况下，我会在它回答问题的过程中收到超出尝试次数的通知。所以，我只需要关掉那个通知，Perplexity 还是会完成那项任务。但我不能再问它更多了。沮丧是有那么一点点，但我可以直接去别的地方，你知道的，获取信息。这并不是，可以这么说，世界末日。

31:32-31:37 - Researcher: Right, so it finishes that last task even after the notice pops up. That's helpful. When you switch over to Poe or Claude, - 对，所以即使弹出通知后，它也会完成最后一项任务。这很有帮助。当你切换到 Poe 或 Claude 时，

31:37-31:37 - Leo: Yep. - 是的。

31:41-31:46 - Researcher: are you basically asking the same question again, or are you using those tools for different types of tasks? - 你基本上是把同一个问题再问一遍，还是将这些工具用于不同类型的任务？

31:49-32:35 - Leo: Different types of tasks. Different images that I want to convert as well, actually, some of them will for when perplexity was, uh, newer, it would actually and Poe also it would you know, create images for me. Kinda like Adobe Firefly, which is what I also use. Then after a while, they would they didn't do images anymore. They they referred me to a a different app. So they've gotten quite specialized but there was a time in the past where a lot of these apps did everything or try to do everything. But since then, they've been, I guess they've been more monetized by their by their companies - 不同类型的任务。实际上还有我想转换的不同图像，有些工具会——在 Perplexity 比较新的时候，它甚至，还有 Poe 也是，它们会为我生成图像。有点像 Adobe Firefly，那也是我使用的工具。然后过了一段时间，它们就不再处理图像了。它们把我推荐到另一个应用。所以它们变得非常专业化了，但以前有一段时间，很多这类应用什么都做，或者试图什么都做。但从那以后，我想，随着所属公司开始追求变现，它们变得更专一了。

32:37-32:53 - Researcher: That's a really interesting observation—they used to be more all-in-one, and now they're getting specialized and pushing people toward paid features or separate apps. When you think about Claude specifically, you mentioned earlier you use it for code. Is that still the main thing you use Claude for, or has that expanded? - 这是一个非常有趣的观察——它们以前更像是全能型工具，而现在变得专业化，并把用户推向付费功能或独立应用。当你具体想到 Claude 时，你之前提到用它来写代码。这仍然是你使用 Claude 的主要目的吗，还是已经扩展了？

32:54-34:19 - Leo: I use Claude a little bit And come to think of it, it might even be an alternate if I use up you know, my other tries with the other softwares. Claude, basically, right now, I'm using that mostly for hobby's sake. But I wouldn't be surprised in the past if I may have used it for something else. I just I'm not I don't remember that. Not not to my memories does not serve me well as far as Claude goes. But basically, like, okay. I have an Arduino. I don't know if you know what an Arduino You probably do. I wanted to rewrite some of the code for that so it can be used for something else. And I asked it to rewrite the code. And it did it. Successfully. And, you see, in the past, I was thinking I might wanna learn Python. Which I haven't, you know, which I was I'm curious about. It's good to have a have knowledge of that language. But now that I have apps that do code for me, I mean, I may not even have to learn learn the how to learn that specific coding language. I do have knowledge of BASIC and, uh, Fortran, Microsoft I used Microsoft - 我用一点点 Claude。仔细想来，如果我用完了其他软件的尝试次数，它甚至可能是一个备选方案。Claude 目前，我主要把它当成一种爱好在用。但如果我过去曾把它用于其他事情，我也不会感到惊讶，只是我不记得了。关于 Claude，我的记忆力不太好。但基本上，就像这样：好，我有一个 Arduino。我不知道你知不知道什么是 Arduino，你可能知道。我想重写它的一些代码，以便用于其他用途。我让它重写代码，它成功地完成了。你看，在过去，我在想我可能想学习 Python。我还没学，你知道的，我对此很好奇。掌握那门语言是有好处的。但现在我有了能帮我写代码的应用，我的意思是，我甚至可能不需要去学习如何掌握那种特定的编程语言。我有 BASIC 和 Fortran 的知识，Microsoft 我用过 Microsoft

34:21-34:21 - Researcher: Basic. - Basic.

34:22-34:28 - Leo: Microsoft's coding language, Visual Basic. Yeah. That's what it's called. Also, know BASIC as well. - Microsoft 的编程语言，Visual Basic。对，就是那个名字。我也懂得 BASIC。

34:30-34:43 - Researcher: So you have some coding background, which probably helps you understand what Claude is generating. When Claude rewrites code for you—like with the Arduino—do you ever worry about whether it's accurate, or does your coding knowledge let you verify it pretty easily? - 所以你有一定的编程背景，这可能有助于你理解 Claude 生成的内容。当 Claude 为你重写代码时——比如 Arduino 的代码——你是否担心过它的准确性，或者你的编程知识是否能让你轻松地进行验证？

34:45-35:18 - Leo: Well, if I run it and there's no problem with that, then it it works. I know enough about coding to detect if something doesn't look right. It depends. And the thing is, you know, a lot of what a lot of what the, the code says is a lot of it is for is for the programmer. It's comments. So I just go to the comments and you know, make sure that they're, uh, they have their delimiters on each side so that it doesn't actually pour over into the code itself. - 嗯，如果我运行它没有问题，那它就是可行的。我对编程了解得足够多，可以看出哪里不太对劲。这取决于情况。而且问题在于，你知道，代码里很大一部分内容是写给程序员看的，也就是注释。所以我只需查看注释，确保它们在每一侧都有定界符，这样它就不会真正溢出到代码本身。

35:19-35:32 - Researcher: That makes sense—you can spot-check the structure and the comments. So with Claude, you're mostly using it for hobby projects right now, and it's also kind of a backup when you've maxed out Perplexity or Poe. Have you ever hit usage limits on Claude as well? - 有道理——你可以抽查结构和注释。所以对于 Claude，你现在主要把它用于业余爱好项目，而且当你用完 Perplexity 或 Poe 的额度时，它也算是一种备份。你有没有在 Claude 上也遇到过使用限制？

35:35-35:40 - Leo: Yeah. Yeah. That's happened. After a couple of after a couple of tries. - 有。有。发生过。在几次尝试之后。

35:43-35:43 - Researcher: And - 并且

35:46-36:27 - Leo: And sometimes, actually, some of these apps, they'll they'll they'll say that they're not equipped to do a certain task. And probably because either they can't do it or it costs money to have them do it. So that's why I have that spreadsheet with other apps on it so I can go and it also in the spreadsheet, I I actually asked Perplexity to go out and find out which one of these were free and and which one of these were pay. So it actually did research for me, and then it also I asked it to give me links to every one of them, and it did. So that's a lot of work that it did within maybe, like, fifteen seconds. - 而且有时候，实际上，其中一些应用会说它们没有能力处理某项任务。可能因为它们确实做不到，或者让它们做需要花钱。这就是为什么我有那个列出了其他应用的表格，这样我就可以去查看。而且在表格里，我实际上让 Perplexity 去查了这些应用里哪些是免费的，哪些是付费的。所以它实际上替我做了研究，然后我还让它给我每一个应用的链接，它也照做了。那可是它在可能大约十五秒钟内完成的大量工作。

36:29-36:39 - Researcher: Wow, so Perplexity basically built your entire AI tool directory for you—over 100 apps, categorized by free vs. paid, with links. That's pretty powerful. - 哇，所以 Perplexity 基本上为你构建了一整个 AI 工具目录——超过 100 个应用，按免费和付费分类，并附带链接。这确实很强大。

36:39-36:39 - Leo: Yep. - 是的。

36:42-36:50 - Researcher: When an app tells you it can't do a task, do you usually find another free app from that spreadsheet that can, or are there times when you've thought, "Maybe I should just pay for this one thing"? - 当一个应用告诉你它不能完成某项任务时，你通常会从那个表格里找到另一个可以完成任务的免费应用吗？还是说有时候你会想：“也许我应该为了这一件事付下费”？

37:02-37:05 - Leo: No. Actually, I do find something else but but if I can't, I just wait till tomorrow and try it again because then I could because then, uh, the cycle renews itself. - 不。实际上，我会找别的应用，但如果我找不到，我就等到明天再试，因为那时候，周期就重新开始了。

37:07-37:25 - Researcher: Right, the limits reset. So patience is basically your workaround—you'll just come back to it the next day rather than pay. That's a pretty consistent strategy across all these tools. Thinking about all the AI tools you use for work—Perplexity, Poe, Claude, and the others—if one of them suddenly disappeared tomorrow, which one would disrupt your work the most? - 对，限制会重置。所以耐心基本上就是你的应对策略——你宁愿第二天再来，也不愿付钱。这在所有这些工具中是一个非常一致的策略。 考虑到你工作中使用的所有 AI 工具——Perplexity、Poe、Claude 等等——如果其中一个明天突然消失了，哪一个对你工作的干扰最大？

37:31-37:32 - Leo: I think perplexity would. Perplexity. - 我想是 Perplexity。Perplexity。

37:35-37:41 - Researcher: What makes Perplexity the hardest one to replace? Is it the accuracy, the speed, or something else about how it works? - 是什么让 Perplexity 最难被取代？是因为准确性、速度，还是它工作方式中的其他特点？

37:43-38:05 - Leo: I think it's the accuracy and speed, but also it's the reach. It seems to reach out farther for information. And it's just better at researching than, let's say, Poe. Poe is Poe is pretty good. But it has its limits. Like, it can only do so much, but perplexity is that and a little more, at least a little more. - 我觉得是准确性和速度，还有它的搜索范围。它似乎能触及更广泛的信息。它在研究方面就是比——比如说比 Poe 更好。Poe 挺不错的，但它有它的局限性。比如，它只能做这么多，但 Perplexity 有这些能力，而且还更多一点，至少更多一点。

38:07-38:11 - Researcher: So Perplexity has broader reach and digs deeper when researching. That makes sense given how - 所以 Perplexity 的触达面更广，研究得更深。考虑到你

38:11-38:12 - Leo: Yes. - 是的。

38:14-38:30 - Researcher: you use it for those detailed tasks like the CMYK conversions and transcribing charts. You mentioned earlier you rotate between free versions to avoid paying. Has there ever been a moment where you thought, "You know, maybe I should pay for Perplexity Pro," or has that never really crossed your mind? - 把它用于那些详细的任务，比如 CMYK 转换和转录图表，这很有道理。 你之前提到过你在免费版本之间轮换以避免付费。有没有哪一刻你曾想过：“你知道吗，也许我应该付钱买个 Perplexity Pro”，或者这从未真正在你脑海中闪过？

38:33-38:53 - Leo: It has been suggested to me by the pro by the software itself. But, I'm really not interested in buying it. I have a lot of I have a lot lot of subscriptions already, so one more is probably gonna be you know, on top of that. I think I'm satisfied the way it is right now. - 软件本身建议过我升级 Pro 版本。但是，我真的没兴趣购买。我已经有很多、很多订阅了，再多一个可能就，你知道的，负担太重了。我觉得我对现状挺满意的。

38:55-39:06 - Researcher: That makes total sense—you're already juggling a lot of subscriptions. Do you have a rough sense of what you're spending total each month across all your software subscriptions—the Adobe, Microsoft, Filmora, Canva, all of it combined? - 这完全有道理——你已经在处理很多订阅了。你对每个月花在所有软件订阅上的总额有一个粗略的概念吗——包括 Adobe、Microsoft、Filmora、Canva，所有这些加在一起？

39:13-39:18 - Leo: I would say it's about a hundred and fifteen dollars a month. Maybe a hundred and twenty. - 我想大概是每个月 115 美元。也许 120 美元。

39:20-39:29 - Researcher: Okay, so around $115-120 monthly total. That's a significant chunk, especially when you're relying on interviews, surveys, and Social Security for income. Given that, I'm curious—when - 好的，每个月总计大约 115 到 120 美元。这是一笔不小的开支，尤其是当你依靠访谈、调查和社保金作为收入来源时。考虑到这一点，我很好奇——当你

39:29-39:29 - Leo: Yes. - 是的。

39:32-39:38 - Researcher: you think about all those subscriptions, are there any you've considered cutting, or do they all feel pretty essential to your work right now? - 想到所有这些订阅时，有没有你想过要削减的，还是说它们现在对你的工作来说都非常必要？

39:50-40:18 - Leo: Well, I have noticed that Canva and Figma because they're they have all have AI now, but they're kind of like overlapping. If in the future, it looks like one of the two can do what the other one is is also does, completely. Right now, they overlap, but not completely. If there's ever an app in the future that seems like it's just a duplicate of of another one, I would pick I would probably concentrate on, uh, the more powerful of the two, and I might even have to let one of them go. - 嗯，我注意到 Canva 和 Figma，因为它们现在都有 AI 了，它们有点重叠。在未来，如果看起来其中一个能完全做到另一个能做的所有事，目前它们有重叠，但不完全。如果将来有一个应用看起来只是另一个应用的副本，我可能会专注于其中更强大的那一个，我甚至可能不得不放弃其中一个。

40:20-40:29 - Researcher: That's a smart way to think about it—watching for when they become redundant. Do you see that happening soon with Canva and Figma, or are they still different enough that you need both for now? - 这是一个很聪明的思考方式——关注它们什么时候变得冗余。你觉得这很快就会发生在 Canva 和 Figma 身上吗，还是说它们目前的区别仍然大到你需要两者兼顾？

40:30-41:01 - Leo: They're still different enough. Figma is also good for, like, making websites and and front end, so to speak. And Canva is more like a go to. It's kind of like for people that only have minimal exposure to computers and software. So Canva is more for, you know, the everyday person, and Figma is more specialized, I would think. - 它们的区别仍然足够大。Figma 在制作网站和前端方面也很出色。而 Canva 更像是一个现成的工具。它有点像是为那些对计算机和软件接触极少的人准备的。所以 Canva 更多是为，你知道，普通大众准备的，而我觉得 Figma 更加专业化。

41:03-41:17 - Researcher: Got it—so Figma is more technical and web-focused, while Canva is more accessible and general-purpose. You mentioned earlier you think these tools might eventually merge into one program because of AI. Do you think that's a couple years away, or is it already starting to happen? - 明白——所以 Figma 更倾向于技术和网页端，而 Canva 更易于上手且更通用。你之前提到你认为这些工具最终会因为 AI 而合并成一个程序。你觉得那是几年后的事，还是现在已经开始发生了？

41:17-41:22 - Leo: It's just a guess. I'll say within five years. - 这只是个猜测。我会说是五年内。

41:25-41:44 - Researcher: Five years—interesting timeline. You're seeing the AI features push them closer together already. Alright, let's shift gears a bit. We've talked a lot about the tools you pay for. Now I'm curious about the ones you use frequently for work but don't pay for—like Perplexity, Poe, Claude. Let's start with Perplexity since that's your go-to. You've never paid for Perplexity Pro, right? - 五年——有趣的时间表。你已经看到 AI 功能正在推动它们靠拢。 好了，让我们换个话题。我们已经谈了很多你付费使用的工具。现在我很好奇那些你经常在工作中使用但不付钱的工具——比如 Perplexity、Poe、Claude。让我们从 Perplexity 开始，因为它你的首选工具。你从未为 Perplexity Pro 付过费，对吧？

41:47-41:51 - Leo: Right. Right. Yes. - 没错。没错。是的。

41:53-42:00 - Researcher: What's the main reason you've never considered paying for it? Is it just the cost, or is the free version doing everything you need? - 你从未考虑过付费的主要原因是什么？仅仅是成本问题，还是免费版本已经能完成你所有需要的任务？

42:00-42:03 - Leo: Both reasons. Both reasons. - 两个原因都有。两个原因都有。

42:06-42:16 - Researcher: Makes sense. On a scale of 0 to 10, where 0 is "absolutely no way I'd ever pay" and 10 is "I'd definitely pay in the future," how would you rate your willingness to pay for Perplexity Pro down the road? - 明白。如果在 0 到 10 的等级上，0 是“绝对不可能付钱”，10 是“未来肯定会付钱”，你会如何评价你未来为 Perplexity Pro 付费的意愿？

42:20-42:21 - Leo: Two. - 2 分。

42:23-42:32 - Researcher: A two—so pretty unlikely. What would have to change for that number to go up? Like, what would Perplexity need to offer that would make you think, "Okay, now it's worth paying for"? - 2 分——所以可能性很小。需要发生什么变化才能让这个分数上升？比如，Perplexity 需要提供什么才能让你觉得，“好吧，现在值得付钱了”？

42:36-43:19 - Leo: If, uh, perplexity is if the perplexity programmers decide to restrict more and more of its reach and have it do less of what it does now without you know, if you don't have the pro version, then I might consider it. But I could always go to another app that's free. And, actually, some of these tasks are now also being done by other programs too. Canva isn't quite at that point yet, but it could be in the future. It might be. - 如果，呃，Perplexity 的程序员决定越来越多地限制它的搜索范围，并让它的功能比现在更少，如果不，你知道，如果你没有 Pro 版本。那我可能会考虑。但我总可以换到另一个免费的应用。而且，实际上，现在其他程序也在处理这些任务。Canva 现在还没完全到那个程度，但将来可能会。

43:21-43:37 - Researcher: So you'd only consider paying if they restricted the free version so much that it became unusable, but even then you'd probably just switch to another free app. And you're seeing other tools like Canva starting to do some of what Perplexity does anyway. What are you most satisfied with about Perplexity as it is now? - 所以只有当他们极度限制免费版本，以至于它变得无法使用时，你才会考虑付费，但即便如此，你可能也只是换到另一个免费应用。而且你看到像 Canva 这样的其他工具也开始做一些 Perplexity 在做的事情了。 你目前对 Perplexity 最满意的地方是什么？

43:44-45:25 - Leo: It's its versatility. And whenever I ask it for something, you know, most of the time, it can do it. And, also, there's another thing. Uh, I've used perplexity I've used Canva to transcribe audio into text. I've done that. But, also, Filmora does that too. And I think I think, uh, Riverside also does that. So when I have to convert, you know, like like, with perplexity, I think it it'll transcribe up to a certain point transcribe audio into text up to a certain point. Yeah. I think that's what in my experience with it. And where it where it leaves off, I could always do it with Canva or some other program. So there's there are multiple ways for me to get something done sometimes. So I go to the one that I'm most familiar with and have it done. But like I said, Canva is growing in, you know, in capability. So pretty much here like, here's an example. Like, you know, Photoshop could remove the background you know, out of an image. But now Canva can do that too. And I wouldn't be surprised if Figma can do it as well. I think it does. Oh, Filmora Filmora also. So we'll see how it goes. You know, these software these software creators are running a race they're all running a race to see which can get, uh, take the lead. Right now, Adobe takes the lead, and Figma is, like, in second place. But the other ones may start catching up later, you know, in the near future. - 是它的多功能性。每当我向它寻求什么时，你知道，大多数时候它都能做到。还有，还有另一件事。呃，我用过 Perplexity，我用过 Canva 把音频转录成文本。我做过那个。但是，Filmora 也能做。我想，呃，Riverside 也能做。所以当我需要转换时，你知道，就像用 Perplexity，我想它在一定程度上可以把音频转录成文本。是的，我想这是我在使用它时的经验。在它无法继续的地方，我总能用 Canva 或其他程序来完成。所以有时候我有多种方法来完成某件事。我会去找我最熟悉的那个去完成它。但就像我说的，Canva 的能力正在增长。举个例子，比如，你知道，Photoshop 可以给图像去背。但现在 Canva 也可以了。如果 Figma 也能做，我一点也不会感到惊讶。我想它能做。噢，还有 Filmora。所以我们会拭目以待。你知道，这些软件开发者正在进行一场比赛，他们都在比赛看谁能取得领先。目前，Adobe 处于领先地位，Figma 则是，比如，第二名。但其他软件可能会在未来，你知道，在不久的将来开始赶超。

45:29-45:45 - Researcher: So you're seeing this arms race where features that used to be unique to one tool—like background removal in Photoshop—are now everywhere. And you're hedging your bets by having multiple tools that can do similar things. What's the thing you're least satisfied with about Perplexity? What bugs you or feels limiting? - 所以你看到了这场军备竞赛，以前某个工具独有的功能——比如 Photoshop 的去背功能——现在到处都是。你通过拥有多个能做类似事情的工具来对冲风险。 关于 Perplexity，你最不满意的地方是什么？什么让你感到烦恼或有限制感？

45:46-46:14 - Leo: Oh, when it tells me that I need to switch I I I should switch to pro, in order to have it do more of what it's doing. But that's limiting, but like I said before, all I have to do is go to another software or just wait till tomorrow to have it done. Yeah. That that bugs me a little bit, but it's not enough to make me wanna pay for it. - 哦，就是当它告诉我需要切换——我应该切换到 Pro，以便让它完成更多它正在做的事情。但这虽然有限制，但就像我之前说的，我所要做的就是换一个软件，或者等到明天再做。是的。那让我有点烦，但还不足以让我想为此付钱。

46:16-46:23 - Researcher: Right, those "switch to Pro" prompts are annoying, but not annoying enough to actually make you pay—you just work around it. If you had a magic - 对，那些“切换到 Pro”的提示很烦人，但还没烦到真正让你付钱的程度——你只是绕过它。 如果你有一根魔

46:23-46:26 - Leo: That's correct. If I had a magic wand, - 没错。如果我有一根魔杖，

46:26-46:32 - Researcher: wand and could change one thing about Perplexity right now, what would you change? - 杖，现在可以改变 Perplexity 的一件事，你会改变什么？

46:35-46:51 - Leo: I'll basically have it to be unlimited the amount of times I could use it per day. Which I don't which is probably the way it used to be. Unlikely to happen, but that would be the the wand changer. - 我基本上会取消我每天可以使用的次数限制。这大概就是它以前的样子。虽然不太可能发生，但那是魔杖会改变的事。

46:53-47:10 - Researcher: So unlimited usage without hitting those daily limits—basically the old Perplexity before they started restricting it. That makes sense. Let me get a few quick ratings from you. On a scale of 1 to 5, where 1 is very dissatisfied and 5 is very satisfied, how satisfied are you with Perplexity's ability to actually complete the tasks you give it? - 所以是无限制使用，不触发每日限制——基本上是 Perplexity 开始限制之前的样子。这很有道理。 让我从你这里得到几个快速评分。在 1 到 5 的等级上，1 是非常不满意，5 是非常满意，你对 Perplexity 实际完成你交给它的任务的能力有多满意？

47:12-47:15 - Leo: I give it a a four point seven. - 我给它 4.7 分。

47:18-47:21 - Researcher: 4.7—so really high. What keeps it from being a perfect 5? - 4.7 分——非常高。是什么阻止它达到完美的 5 分？

47:25-47:35 - Leo: Once in a while, it won't do something. Or do something in a limited sense. But when it does, it'll show me how that I can do it myself. - 偶尔，它会不去做某件事。或者在有限的意义上做某件事。但当它在那时，它会向我展示我自己该如何去做。

47:37-47:52 - Researcher: Ah, so occasionally it can't complete the task fully, but it at least points you in the right direction to finish it yourself. That's helpful. Next one: on a scale of 1 to 5, where 1 is not unique at all and 5 is very unique, how unique do you think Perplexity is compared to other similar AI tools? - 啊，所以偶尔它不能完全完成任务，但它至少会为你指出正确的方向，让你自己去完成。这很有帮助。 下一个：在 1 到 5 的等级上，1 是完全不独特，5 是非常独特，你认为 Perplexity 与其他类似的 AI 工具相比有多独特？

47:55-47:58 - Leo: I would say I would say four. - 我会说是 4 分。

48:00-48:04 - Researcher: A four—so pretty unique still. What makes it stand out compared to the others like Poe or Claude? - 4 分——所以仍然非常独特。与 Poe 或 Claude 等其他工具相比，它的突出之处在哪里？

48:08-48:22 - Leo: The it's the cast of a wider net and it has an extended reach as far as getting info. And, you know, even though it's not a paid version, it still has a lot skills that can do a lot of work even as free. - 它撒的网更广，在获取信息方面有更广阔的触达范围。而且，你知道，即使不是付费版，它仍然有很多技能，即使作为免费版也能完成很多工作。

48:25-48:42 - Researcher: So it's that broader reach and the fact that the free version is still so capable—it punches above its weight compared to other free tools. Last rating: on a scale of 1 to 5, how satisfied are you with Perplexity's value for money? And I know you're not paying, so think of it as the free version—how good is the deal you're getting? - 所以是更广的范围，以及免费版仍然如此强大——与其他免费工具相比，它的表现超出了它的段位。 最后一个评分：在 1 到 5 的等级上，你对 Perplexity 的性价比有多满意？我知道你没付钱，所以把它看作免费版——你得到的这个待遇有多好？

48:45-48:48 - Leo: It's really good. I would say it's a it's a five. - 真的很好。我会说是 5 分。

48:50-49:04 - Researcher: A five—so the free version is an incredible deal for what you're getting. That makes total sense given everything you've said. Alright, let's talk about Poe for a minute. You use that as a backup when you hit limits on Perplexity. Have you ever paid for Poe, or considered paying for it? - 5 分——所以对于你得到的功能来说，免费版是一个难以置信的好 deal。考虑到你所说的一切，这完全理解。 好了，让我们谈谈 Poe。你在 Perplexity 到达限制时用它作为备份。你有没有为 Poe 付过费，或者考虑过为此付费？

49:05-49:08 - Leo: Uh, no. No. I haven't I haven't considered paying for it. - 呃，没有。没有。我没考虑过为它付钱。

49:10-49:13 - Researcher: What's the main reason you haven't considered paying for Poe? - 你没考虑过为 Poe 付费的主要原因是什么？

49:14-49:23 - Leo: Cost, and, uh, I've got perplexity on hand to do what Poe can't do. And I can also wait till tomorrow. - 成本，而且，呃，我有 Perplexity 在手，可以做 Poe 做不到的事。而且我也可以等到明天。

49:25-49:39 - Researcher: So Poe is really just your rotation player—when Perplexity is maxed out, you use Poe, but you're not relying on it enough to justify paying. And again, you can just wait for limits to reset. On that same 0 to 10 scale, how willing would you be to pay for Poe in the future? - 所以 Poe 真的只是你的轮换选手——当 Perplexity 用完时，你就用 Poe，但你对它的依赖还不足以让你决定付费。而且同样，你可以等着限制重置。 还是那个 0 到 10 的等级，你未来为 Poe 付费的意愿有多高？

49:43-49:45 - Leo: Zero. - 0 分。

49:46-49:54 - Researcher: Zero—absolutely not. What about Claude? You mentioned using it mostly for hobbies and code rewriting. Have you ever paid for Claude or considered it? - 0 分——绝对不会。那 Claude 呢？你提到主要把它用于爱好和代码重写。你有没有为 Claude 付过费或者考虑过？

50:07-50:36 - Leo: Uh, no. Uh, I haven't paid for it, but I don't plan on paying for Claude, but if in the future I have to do coding or get back to doing coding, and it has to it throws up the limit sign I might consider paying for Claude maybe just temporarily. But the odds of that happening are not very great. So I would say the odds of on a scale of one to ten where zero is absolutely not and ten is, of course, I would give it a three. - 呃，没有。呃，我没付过费，我也不打算为 Claude 付钱，但如果以后我必须写代码或者回到写代码的工作中，而它又弹出了限制标志，我可能会考虑为 Claude 付费，也许只是暂时的。但那种情况发生的几率并不是很大。所以我会说，在 0 到 10 的等级上（0 是绝对不会，10 是当然会），我会给它 3 分。

50:39-50:49 - Researcher: A three—so there's a small chance if you got heavily into coding projects and kept hitting limits. But right now, your hobby use doesn't justify it. What's the main reason you haven't paid for Claude so far? - 3 分——所以如果你大量投入到编程项目中并不断触及限制，还有一小点可能性。但现在，你的爱好用途还不足以为此付费。 到目前为止，你没为 Claude 付费的主要原因是什么？

50:50-50:54 - Leo: Cost and that it wasn't essential. - 成本，而且它不是必不可少的。

50:56-51:06 - Researcher: Makes sense—it's useful but not essential enough to add another subscription. You've already got $115-120 going out monthly. What are you most satisfied with about Claude when you do use it? - 明白——它很有用，但还没到必须增加一个订阅的程度。你每个月已经有 115 到 120 美元的支出了。 当你使用 Claude 时，你最满意的是什么？

51:11-51:18 - Leo: Basically, I'm satisfied and impressed that Claude could write code and rewrite it. - 基本上，我很满意也很佩服 Claude 能写代码并重写代码。

51:21-51:22 - Researcher: So it's that - 所以是

51:22-51:53 - Leo: It's on hand I'm sorry. It's on hand in case, you know, coding becomes more of an issue, but you know, it's interesting because now there's actually no code methods and and apps that are out there. So you you can actually write the code for you when you try to make a new software. So, actually, yeah, it's kinda like there are also other Claude like programs out there. It's the coding. Yeah. - 它就在手边，抱歉。它就在手边，以防万一，你知道，写代码变得更加重要，但你知道吗，这很有意思，因为现在实际上已经有无代码方法和应用了。所以当你尝试开发新软件时，你实际上可以让人帮你写代码。所以，实际上，是的，有点像现在也有其他类似 Claude 的程序。那是写代码。是的。

51:55-52:07 - Researcher: Right—so even Claude's coding strength is becoming less unique because now there are no-code tools and other apps that can write code for you. So Claude's niche is shrinking. What's the thing you're least satisfied with about Claude? - 对——所以即使是 Claude 的编程优势也变得不那么独特了，因为现在有了无代码工具和其他可以为你写代码的应用。所以 Claude 的利基市场正在缩小。 关于 Claude，你最不满意的是什么？

52:11-52:33 - Leo: Just that it has its limitations as to how much it'll do for you in one day. But it's the same with perplexity. But I think I still am very impressed very impressed with Claude and its ability to rewrite code and, you know, being a nonhuman rewriting code, I think that's pretty amazing. - 只是它对你一天能做多少事有局限性。但这和 Perplexity 是一样的。但我认为我仍然对 Claude 以及它重写代码的能力印象非常深刻，非常深刻。你知道，作为一个非人类重写代码，我认为这非常神奇。

52:36-52:47 - Researcher: So the daily limits bug you, but you're still genuinely impressed by what it can do—a non-human rewriting code is pretty mind-blowing. If you had a magic wand and could change one thing about Claude, what would it be? - 所以每日限制让你烦恼，但你仍然对它的能力感到由衷的佩服——非人类重写代码确实令人惊叹。 如果你有一根魔杖，可以改变 Claude 的一件事，那会是什么？

52:50-52:53 - Leo: Just to to lift its limitations. - 就是取消它的限制。

52:55-53:06 - Researcher: Unlimited usage again—same as Perplexity. You want the gates open. Let me get some quick ratings on Claude. On a scale of 1 to 5, how satisfied are you with Claude's ability to complete the tasks you give it? - 又是无限制使用——和 Perplexity 一样。你想要大门敞开。 让我给 Claude 打几个快速评分。在 1 到 5 的等级上，你对 Claude 完成你交给它的任务的能力有多满意？

53:07-53:10 - Leo: Mhmm. Five. - 嗯。5 分。

53:12-53:28 - Researcher: A perfect 5—so when you use it for code, it delivers. How unique is Claude compared to other similar tools? 1 to 5, where 1 is not unique at all and 5 is very unique. - 满分 5 分——所以当你把它用于代码时，它能完成任务。 与其他类似工具相比，Claude 有多独特？1 到 5 分，1 是完全不独特，5 是非常独特。

53:32-53:37 - Leo: I would say it's a four. Because I know there's other softwares out there. - 我会说是 4 分。因为我知道还有其他软件。

53:39-53:49 - Researcher: A four—so it's pretty unique, but you're aware there are alternatives creeping in, especially with those no-code tools you mentioned. Last one for Claude: value for money on the free version, 1 to 5? - 4 分——所以它挺独特的，但你意识到替代品正在悄然兴起，尤其是你提到的那些无代码工具。 最后一个关于 Claude：免费版的性价比，1 到 5 分？

53:51-53:52 - Leo: Five. - 5 分。

53:55-54:12 - Researcher: A five—another incredible free deal for what you're getting. Alright Leo, we've covered a lot of ground on the specific tools. Let me zoom out now and ask you more broadly: When you're deciding whether to pay for an AI productivity tool, what are the main factors you consider? Walk me through what goes through your mind. - 5 分——又是一个极好的、物超所值的免费待遇。 好了 Leo，我们已经讨论了很多关于具体工具的内容。现在让我放大视角，问一个更广泛的问题：当你决定是否为一个 AI 生产力工具付钱时，你考虑的主要因素是什么？请告诉我你脑子里是怎么想的。

54:17-54:35 - Leo: I know what goes through my mind is can I, uh, still get my work done with the free version and jumping around to another free version? And also the cost. So those things those are two issues that run through my mind. - 我知道我脑子里想的是：我能否通过免费版本和在不同的免费版本之间切换来完成我的工作？还有成本。所以这两件事是我脑子里跑出的两个问题。

54:37-54:37 - Researcher: So it's really: - 所以其实就是：

54:37-54:40 - Leo: I I don't wanna I don't wanna oversubscribe myself. - 我不，我不想让自己的订阅负荷过重。

54:42-55:00 - Researcher: Right—you don't want to overextend on subscriptions. You're already at $115-120 a month, so adding more is a real consideration. So the two big factors are: "Can I get the work done by rotating free versions?" and "What's the cost?" Are there any other factors that come into play when you're deciding? - 对——你不想在订阅上过度支出。你现在已经是每月 115 到 120 美元了，所以再增加订阅是一个现实的考量。 所以两个主要因素是：“我能否通过轮换免费版本来完成工作？”以及“成本是多少？” 在你做决定时，还有其他因素在起作用吗？

55:03-55:04 - Leo: Uh, no. Not really. - 呃，不。并没有。

55:06-55:13 - Researcher: Okay, so it's mainly those two. Between those—getting work done with free versions versus cost—which one is more important to you? - 好的，所以主要是这两个。在这两者之间——通过免费版完成工作 vs. 成本——哪一个对你更重要？

55:17-55:19 - Leo: Uh, at this time, it's the cost. - 呃，目前是成本。

55:21-55:34 - Researcher: Cost is number one right now. That makes sense given where you are financially. Let me ask this: has there ever been a time when you did decide to pay for a tool even though there were free alternatives? Like with Filmora or Canva—what tipped the scale there? - 成本目前是第一位的。考虑到你的财务状况，这很有道理。 让我问这个：有没有什么时候，即使有免费的替代方案，你还是决定为一个工具付费？比如 Filmora 或 Canva——在那里，是什么决定了天平的倾斜？

55:39-55:59 - Leo: Yeah. Um, a good example, I think, would be also Figma. I've I've heard, like, I've watched podcasts training you how to use Figma. And I would think considering that, could you rephrase the question for me? - 有的。嗯，一个很好的例子，我想，也会是 Figma。我听过，比如，我看过培训你如何使用 Figma 的播客。我会想，考虑到这一点，你能为我重述一下问题吗？

56:02-56:09 - Researcher: Sure—I'm asking: when you did decide to pay for something like Filmora, Canva, or Figma, what made you decide to pay instead of sticking with free tools? - 当然——我在问：当你确实决定为 Filmora、Canva 或 Figma 之类的东西付钱时，是什么让你决定付钱而不是坚持使用免费工具？

56:14-57:12 - Leo: Okay. Well, when I would watch these, uh, podcasts, and YouTube videos about how to use those programs, they would say, oh, you don't have to pay for it. You can just have a free version. But I'm looking ahead and saying, I'm gonna probably have to use the full you know, the the, uh, the pro version anyway. If I'm gonna use it in my work, and, you know, claim that I know it. So I might as well go ahead and buy it now. Because if I run into a limitation while I'm trying to practice with it, that that's not gonna be very helpful. So, yeah, when I say they're free, you know, the those three programs, when I say they're free, you know, for most for most people that are just doing simple things. Well, I don't do simple things. Very often. My stuff is usually more complex. So I'm just looking ahead and saying, yeah. I think paying for this one would be a good strategy. - 好的。嗯，当我看到这些关于如何使用那些程序的播客和 YouTube 视频时，他们会说，哦，你不必付钱买它。你只需要用免费版。但我看得很远，我说，反正我可能还是得用完整版，你知道的，Pro 版本。如果我要在我的工作中使用它，并且，你知道，声称我掌握了它。那我不如现在就买它。因为如果我在尝试练习时遇到了限制，那对我将不会有什么帮助。所以，是的，当我说它们是免费的时候，你知道，那三个程序，当我说它们是免费的时候，你知道，那是对大多数只做简单事情的人而言。而我并不经常做简单的事情。我的工作通常更复杂。所以我只是往前看，然后说，是的，我觉得为这个付钱会是一个好的策略。

57:14-57:36 - Researcher: Ah, that's really helpful. So for your work tools—the ones you need to deliver client projects—you pay upfront because you know you'll hit the limits while learning or working, and you need the full capabilities to do complex work and credibly claim expertise. But for AI tools like Perplexity or Claude, they're more like helpers on the side, so the free rotation strategy works fine. Is that a fair way to describe the difference? - 啊，这非常有帮助。所以对于你的工作工具——那些你需要用来交付客户项目的工具——你会提前付费，因为你知道你在学习或工作时会触及限制，而且你需要完整的能力来做复杂的工作，并令人信服地展现专业性。 但对于像 Perplexity 或 Claude 这样的 AI 工具，它们更像是侧边的助手，所以免费轮换策略行得通。 这样描述这种差异准确吗？

57:42-57:46 - Leo: Yes. And also that, you know, Perplexity and Claude are kind of like time savers. - 是的。还有就是，你知道，Perplexity 和 Claude 有点像时间节省器。

57:49-58:09 - Researcher: Right—they're time savers, not core production tools. You could do the work without them; they just speed things up. Whereas with Figma or Canva, those are the production tools—you can't deliver the work without them. Does the type of task the AI does matter? Like, would you be more likely to pay for an AI that creates final deliverables versus one that just helps you research or organize? - 对——它们是省时工具，而不是核心生产工具。没有它们你也能做工作；它们只是加快了速度。 相比之下，Figma 或 Canva 是生产工具——没有它们你就无法交付工作。 AI 所执行的任务类型重要吗？比如，相较于只是帮你做调研或整理内容的 AI，你是否更有可能为能够创建最终交付成果的 AI 付费？

58:10-58:32 - Leo: Actually, there are AIs out there that do create deliverables. Of the quality of which I'm not sure. But and one of them would be like Adobe Firefly. That that can actually that can actually make, still still images from text also Filmora can do that too. - 事实上，市面上确实存在能创建交付成果的 AI。虽然我对它们的质量还不确定。但其中一个就是 Adobe Firefly。它确实可以根据文本生成静态图像，Filmora 也可以做到这一点。

58:34-58:46 - Researcher: Right, tools like Adobe Firefly and Filmora can generate images or videos from text. Have you ever used those AI-generated images or videos as final deliverables for a client, or do you mostly use them as starting points that you then refine? - 对，像 Adobe Firefly 和 Filmora 这样的工具可以根据文本生成图像或视频。 你是否曾将这些 AI 生成的图像或视频作为最终成果交付给客户，还是主要将它们作为起点，然后再进行精修？

58:47-58:49 - Leo: I've done both. - 这两种情况我都做过。

58:52-59:03 - Researcher: Interesting—so sometimes the AI output is good enough to go straight to the client. When you have delivered AI-generated content directly, how did the client react? Did they know it was AI-made, or does it even matter to them? - 有意思——所以有时 AI 的输出结果已经足够好，可以直接交给客户了。 当你直接交付 AI 生成的内容时，客户的反应如何？他们知道那是 AI 制作的吗，或者这对他们来说重要吗？

59:04-59:29 - Leo: Oh, actually, I tell them I tell them beforehand. And that's what actually they're asking me to like, one client will ask me to to AI generate something and see if I could make it do a certain thing. And so I just ask well, Filmora actually seems to have played a big role in one of my recent projects. - 噢，实际上，我会事先告诉他们。而且这实际上是他们要求我做的，比如有一位客户会要求我用 AI 生成一些东西，看看我是否能让它实现特定的效果。所以我只是去尝试，而在我最近的一个项目中，Filmora 似乎发挥了很大的作用。

59:31-59:44 - Researcher: So clients are actually requesting AI-generated content and asking you to experiment with what's possible. That's a shift—they're curious about AI capabilities themselves. What was that recent Filmora project about? What were they asking you to make it do? - 所以客户实际上是在主动要求 AI 生成的内容，并让你实验各种可能性。这是一种转变——他们自己也对 AI 的能力感到好奇。 那个最近的 Filmora 项目是关于什么的？他们当时要求你用它做什么？

59:53-01:00:53 - Leo: Okay. Uh, actually, it was one client that asked me to make AI. It's a it was it's a presentation basically, about I it's a proprietary subject, but it involves ocean exploration. And I would create a an object in film asking Filmora to create an object and let it do a certain thing and came out with a couple of versions It came up with a couple of versions. And I picked two of them. And my client was pleased. And I was able to, you know, make videos with them and also use their images for posters. And it turned out pretty well. In fact, I'm still doing that type of work now. In fact, I have a number of AI you know, generating AI images and videos coming up. So I'll be doing it again. - 好的。呃，其实那是一位客户要求我制作 AI 内容。基本上是一个关于……这是一个内部专利主题，但涉及海洋探索。我会在 Filmora 中创建一个物体，要求它生成一个物体并让它完成特定的动作，然后它生成了几个版本。它给出了几个版本，我挑选了其中两个。我的客户很满意。我能够用它们制作视频，也可以将这些图像用于海报。效果非常不错。事实上，我目前仍在做此类工作。其实，我接下来还有一系列生成 AI 图像和视频的任务。所以我还会再做一次。

01:00:55-01:01:14 - Researcher: So this client is coming back for more AI-generated work—they liked what Filmora produced. You're using it to create objects, animations, and then repurposing those into videos and posters. That's a repeat revenue stream from AI generation. Does that change how you think about paying for these AI tools? Like, if a tool is directly generating billable work versus just saving you time? - 看来这位客户为了更多的 AI 生成工作又回来了——他们很喜欢 Filmora 制作的东西。你正利用它来创建物体、动画，然后将这些素材重新应用到视频和海报中。 这是来自 AI 生成内容的持续收入流。这是否改变了你对这些 AI 工具付费的看法？比如，如果一个工具是直接生成可收费的工作成果，而不仅仅是为你节省时间？

01:01:25-01:01:52 - Leo: Perplexity doesn't have that much of of a role in well, put it this way, uh, perplexity is, uh, doing those things for me free so I don't have to you know, subscribe to anything with them. If it seems like I can't get the gigs I can't complete the gigs because I don't subscribe to a tool, then I'll buy it. But so far, things, the way they are, seem to be you know, pretty sufficient. - Perplexity 在这方面扮演的角色并没那么重。这么说吧，呃，Perplexity 为我做的这些事情是免费的，所以我不需要订阅他们的任何服务。如果看起来我因为没有订阅某个工具而拿不到项目，或者无法完成项目，那我就会买。但到目前为止，按现状来看，一切似乎都挺充分的。

01:01:54-01:02:13 - Researcher: Got it—so the deciding factor is: "Am I blocked from completing paid work without the subscription?" If yes, you buy it. If the free version gets the job done, you stick with free. So far, Perplexity's free limits haven't actually stopped you from finishing a client project. If they did—like you couldn't deliver because you hit the limit—would that push you to subscribe? - 明白了——所以决定因素是：“如果没有订阅，我是否被阻碍而无法完成付费工作？”如果是，你就买。如果免费版能搞定工作，你就坚持用免费的。 到目前为止，Perplexity 的免费限制实际上并没有影响你完成客户项目。如果它们影响了——比如因为触及限制而无法交付——那会促使你订阅吗？

01:02:17-01:02:26 - Leo: Reading your question. Yeah. You you're correct. Oh, there's another there's another software I didn't mention too much of. CorelDRAW. - 看到你的问题。是的，你是对的。噢，还有另一个软件我没怎么提到：CorelDRAW。

01:02:29-01:02:31 - Researcher: Oh right, you mentioned CorelDRAW - 噢对，你提到了 CorelDRAW。

01:02:32-01:03:05 - Leo: Yeah. I I purchased CorelDRAW several years ago. I think I purchased the twenty twenty version. And from what I understand, they're getting more AI and similar things, but I see no reason to upgrade because actually I'm not leasing that software. Actually purchased it. First purchased it outright. Don't see any reason to upgrade it because those tasks can be completed by other other softwares. - 是的。我在几年前购买了 CorelDRAW。我想我买的是 2020 版本。据我平时的了解，他们正在加入更多的 AI 和类似功能，但我看不出升级的理由，因为实际上我不是在租用那个软件，我是直接买断的。第一次就是直接买断。我看不到任何升级的理由，因为那些任务可以通过其他软件完成。

01:03:07-01:03:34 - Researcher: That makes total sense—you own CorelDRAW outright, and even though newer versions have more AI, the other tools you're already leasing cover those tasks. No point paying again for the same capability. Leo, I think we've covered a lot of ground today—your work, how you use AI tools, your decision-making around subscriptions, and what would push you to pay. Really appreciate you sharing all these details and examples with me. Is there anything else about AI tools or paying for them that you think I should know, or are we good? - 这完全说得通——你完全拥有 CorelDRAW，尽管新版本有更多 AI 功能，但你已经在租用的其他工具已经涵盖了这些任务。没必要为同样的功能重复付钱。 Leo，我想我们今天讨论了很多内容——你的工作、你如何使用 AI 工具、你关于订阅的决策，以及什么会促使你付费。非常感谢你与我分享这些细节和案例。 关于 AI 工具或付费，还有什么你觉得我应该了解的吗？或者我们今天就聊到这里？

01:03:35-01:03:36 - Leo: I think we're good. - 我觉得可以了。

01:03:38-01:03:51 - Researcher: Perfect! Thank you so much for your time today, Leo. This was really insightful—hearing about how you juggle all these tools, rotate the free versions, and decide what's worth paying for. Best of luck with your upcoming AI video and image projects! - 太棒了！非常感谢你今天的时间，Leo。这非常有启发性——听你讲述如何权衡这些工具、轮换使用免费版以及决定什么是值得付费的。祝你接下来的 AI 视频和图像项目顺利！

01:03:52-01:03:53 - Leo: Thank you. - 谢谢。

01:03:55-01:03:56 - Researcher: You're welcome! Take care, Leo! - 不客气！保重，Leo！

01:03:59-01:04:01 - Leo: Thanks. You too. - 谢谢。你也是。